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The NHL lockout won’t negatively impact the local economy, outside of the businesses directly affected by the games, such as the arena, the pubs around it and the broadcast media that cover the games, according to a UBC business professor.
“These things have been studied quite a bit and the lack of sporting events doesn’t have much economic impact on the city,” said Prof. James Brander at the Sauder School of Business. “It’s pretty darn small.”
Brander said the economic activity is redistributed as hockey fans spend their entertainment dollars on other things, such as going to restaurants, movies and theatre.
He said the economic impact of sporting events is usually overestimated because the industry has a disproportionately high public profile.
He said the loss of other industries would hurt the province but the hockey work stoppage gets more attention because the game is “exciting and fun.”
“The Vancouver Canucks receive way more media coverage than their economic value would justify,” said Brander. “How much coverage does the pulp and paper industry get?”
He said pubs that rely on traffic to Rogers Arena would take a hit, a development attested to by general manager Rob Ward of the Ticket on Beatty Street.
“Revenues are down 35 per cent” during the lockout, now in its 11th week, Ward said.
There have been no staff layoffs, thanks to B.C. Lions and Vancouver Whitecaps games, as well as a busy month for arena concerts, he said.
“But it’s stopped us from hiring more staff,” Ward said.
Gary Carlson of the Back Forty pub, also on Beatty, estimated it’s lost more than $40,000 because Canucks game nights usually triple or quadruple business. That’s meant cutting back on staff shifts and letting one staffer go.
“It’s taken a big bite out of revenue,” he said.
Brander predicted fewer hockey games for fans to attend at Rogers Arena would mean more traffic for neighbourhood pubs.
But Scott Mawer of the Frog and Nightgown in Coquitlam said takings have been down 10 to 15 per cent since the lockout started, a “substantial drop.”
“When the Canucks are winning, people are drinking more, and when the Canucks are losing, they just finish their drinks and pack up and go home,” he said.
Without the Canucks on TV, “They come in now, have one and leave.”
“Hockey would definitely help business,” he said.
Howard Chang of the Arts Club Theatre said theatre attendance has stayed steady during the lockout.
The NHL has cancelled 422 regular-season games and NHL commissioner Gary Bettman has estimated the league loses $20 million a day.
Canucks Sports and Entertainment spokesman T.C. Carling said in an email that the club is privately owned and doesn’t disclose financial details.
“As an organization we have not laid off any employees, but our front office staff is currently working a reduced (4-days a week) work week,” he said.
NHL lockout hurts only a few local businesses
“These things have been studied quite a bit and the lack of sporting events doesn’t have much economic impact on the city,” said Prof. James Brander at the Sauder School of Business. “It’s pretty darn small.”
Brander said the economic activity is redistributed as hockey fans spend their entertainment dollars on other things, such as going to restaurants, movies and theatre.
He said the economic impact of sporting events is usually overestimated because the industry has a disproportionately high public profile.
He said the loss of other industries would hurt the province but the hockey work stoppage gets more attention because the game is “exciting and fun.”
“The Vancouver Canucks receive way more media coverage than their economic value would justify,” said Brander. “How much coverage does the pulp and paper industry get?”
He said pubs that rely on traffic to Rogers Arena would take a hit, a development attested to by general manager Rob Ward of the Ticket on Beatty Street.
“Revenues are down 35 per cent” during the lockout, now in its 11th week, Ward said.
There have been no staff layoffs, thanks to B.C. Lions and Vancouver Whitecaps games, as well as a busy month for arena concerts, he said.
“But it’s stopped us from hiring more staff,” Ward said.
Gary Carlson of the Back Forty pub, also on Beatty, estimated it’s lost more than $40,000 because Canucks game nights usually triple or quadruple business. That’s meant cutting back on staff shifts and letting one staffer go.
“It’s taken a big bite out of revenue,” he said.
Brander predicted fewer hockey games for fans to attend at Rogers Arena would mean more traffic for neighbourhood pubs.
But Scott Mawer of the Frog and Nightgown in Coquitlam said takings have been down 10 to 15 per cent since the lockout started, a “substantial drop.”
“When the Canucks are winning, people are drinking more, and when the Canucks are losing, they just finish their drinks and pack up and go home,” he said.
Without the Canucks on TV, “They come in now, have one and leave.”
“Hockey would definitely help business,” he said.
Howard Chang of the Arts Club Theatre said theatre attendance has stayed steady during the lockout.
The NHL has cancelled 422 regular-season games and NHL commissioner Gary Bettman has estimated the league loses $20 million a day.
Canucks Sports and Entertainment spokesman T.C. Carling said in an email that the club is privately owned and doesn’t disclose financial details.
“As an organization we have not laid off any employees, but our front office staff is currently working a reduced (4-days a week) work week,” he said.
NHL lockout hurts only a few local businesses
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2006/12/07
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As the NHL lockout hit its 74th day, Forbes magazine put out its annual estimation of club values Wednesday, which showed most of the owners are richer than ever, although the gap between the rich and not-so-rich is bigger than ever.
Still richest of all are the Toronto Maple Leafs, who may be 45 years removed from their last Stanley Cup win but are the first NHL club to hit $1-billion (all currency U.S.) in value. The Leafs topped the list by jumping a whopping 92 per cent in value from last year’s estimate in the eyes of Forbes.
“The Leafs? By themselves?” said Richard Peddie, who retired a year ago as the president of the club’s owner, Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment Ltd.
Both Peddie and the current MLSE president, Tom Anselmi, questioned the accuracy of Forbes’s numbers, as NHL executives do every year.
However, those executives will also tell you the numbers can be used as indicators of where clubs rank in value, revenue and profit.
Peddie wondered about “the huge inflation” in the Leafs’ value from a year ago but cited the same reason as Forbes. The jump was attributed to the sale of 75 per cent of MLSE to Rogers Communications Inc., and BCE Inc., which paid $2.05-billion to the Ontario Teachers’ Pension Plan Board.
The average NHL franchise is worth $282-million, according to Forbes, an increase of 18 per cent from a year ago thanks to the record revenue from the 2011-12 season, which Forbes puts at $3.4-billion, slightly higher than the NHL’s claim of $3.3-billion.
Peddie said he could see the sale leading to a $1-billion evaluation of the Leafs, since they are the most profitable of the company’s teams with an estimated $81-million of profit each year. Anselmi thought so too, up to a point.
“The recent MLSE sale is an indication of the growing importance of all of our franchises to our fans, but I have no idea how Forbes comes up with their numbers,” Anselmi wrote in an e-mail message.
But the disparity in value between the top and bottom clubs drives home one of the key points NHL Players’ Association executive Donald Fehr and his negotiators have made throughout the lockout – the path to financial health for all 30 teams is through increased revenue sharing.
The top five clubs in the league (in order, the Maple Leafs, New York Rangers, Montreal Canadiens, Chicago Blackhawks and Boston Bruins) are worth a total of $3.023-billion. The NHL’s bottom five teams – in order, the Carolina Hurricanes, New York Islanders, Columbus Blue Jackets, Phoenix Coyotes and St. Louis Blues – are worth a total of $726-million, a staggering $2.3-billion less.
Also, Forbes estimates the Maple Leafs, Rangers and Canadiens earned a combined $171-million in profits during the 2011-12 season. The other 27 clubs lost a collective $44-million, a dramatic illustration of how steep the losses are for at least half a dozen teams.
Todd Jewell, a sports economist and the chair of the Department of Economics at the University of North Texas, says there is a simple reason for the disparity.
“Once you get away from the strong hockey hotbeds, it’s really a niche sport,” he said. “There isn’t a real strong hockey culture in most of the United States. You can expand the NBA and you can go to small cites and still make some money. In hockey, once you get away from Boston or New York or Detroit, your potential fan base drops dramatically. It’s not a small drop-off. It’s huge.”
While Fehr and the players see increased revenue-sharing as the answer, the wealthy clubs disagree. Peddie said people need to realize gross revenue does not translate to large profits for some clubs because they have high expenses.
“What I come back to and haven’t seen reported is this: Is the league making money in total?” Peddie said. “If it’s not, then revenue-sharing just moves around the losses.”
Peddie would like to see the NHL move toward the NBA’s system, which has each club contribute 50 per cent of its annual revenue, minus some expenses, into a pool. Then each club draws a share equal to the NBA’s average payroll from the pool. This allows the rich clubs to spend more by exceeding the average payroll, but they also contribute more to the revenue-sharing pool.
“[The NBA] is proving the whole league can make money,” Peddie said of the plan. But the NHL cannot afford that type of system, Peddie said, until it, too, turns a collective profit.
Revenue-sharing is not something the wealthy clubs are interested in, although the NHL reportedly is close to an agreement with the union on a revenue-sharing plan under which around $230-million would be redistributed annually, an increase of about 53 per cent from the $150-million under the former labour agreement.
However, that represents only about 7 per cent of the $3.3-billion the NHL brought in during the 2011-12 season. Major League Baseball, which found prosperity with greater revenue sharing thanks to the prodding of Fehr when he was head of that sport’s union, sees its rich clubs put 31 per cent of their local revenue into a fund shared by the poorer relations.
Maybe the federal mediators can drag some of the recalcitrant owners toward this position. They sat down Wednesday with the NHL and the union for a voluntary mediation session in Washington, D.C.
There was no word on how the meeting went, although they are to meet again Thursday.
THE LIST
2012 NHL team evaluations, according to Forbes magazine (all currency U.S.):
1. Toronto Maple Leafs – $1-billion
2. New York Rangers – $750-million
3. Montreal Canadiens – $575-million
4. Chicago Blackhawks – $350-million
5. Boston Bruins – $348-million
6. Detroit Red Wings – $346-million
7. Vancouver Canucks – $342-million
8. Philadelphia Flyers – $336-million
9. Pittsburgh Penguins – $288-million
10. Los Angeles Kings – $276-million
11. Washington Capitals – $250-million
12. Calgary Flames – $245-million
13. Dallas Stars – $240-million
Still richest of all are the Toronto Maple Leafs, who may be 45 years removed from their last Stanley Cup win but are the first NHL club to hit $1-billion (all currency U.S.) in value. The Leafs topped the list by jumping a whopping 92 per cent in value from last year’s estimate in the eyes of Forbes.
“The Leafs? By themselves?” said Richard Peddie, who retired a year ago as the president of the club’s owner, Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment Ltd.
Both Peddie and the current MLSE president, Tom Anselmi, questioned the accuracy of Forbes’s numbers, as NHL executives do every year.
However, those executives will also tell you the numbers can be used as indicators of where clubs rank in value, revenue and profit.
Peddie wondered about “the huge inflation” in the Leafs’ value from a year ago but cited the same reason as Forbes. The jump was attributed to the sale of 75 per cent of MLSE to Rogers Communications Inc., and BCE Inc., which paid $2.05-billion to the Ontario Teachers’ Pension Plan Board.
The average NHL franchise is worth $282-million, according to Forbes, an increase of 18 per cent from a year ago thanks to the record revenue from the 2011-12 season, which Forbes puts at $3.4-billion, slightly higher than the NHL’s claim of $3.3-billion.
Peddie said he could see the sale leading to a $1-billion evaluation of the Leafs, since they are the most profitable of the company’s teams with an estimated $81-million of profit each year. Anselmi thought so too, up to a point.
“The recent MLSE sale is an indication of the growing importance of all of our franchises to our fans, but I have no idea how Forbes comes up with their numbers,” Anselmi wrote in an e-mail message.
But the disparity in value between the top and bottom clubs drives home one of the key points NHL Players’ Association executive Donald Fehr and his negotiators have made throughout the lockout – the path to financial health for all 30 teams is through increased revenue sharing.
The top five clubs in the league (in order, the Maple Leafs, New York Rangers, Montreal Canadiens, Chicago Blackhawks and Boston Bruins) are worth a total of $3.023-billion. The NHL’s bottom five teams – in order, the Carolina Hurricanes, New York Islanders, Columbus Blue Jackets, Phoenix Coyotes and St. Louis Blues – are worth a total of $726-million, a staggering $2.3-billion less.
Also, Forbes estimates the Maple Leafs, Rangers and Canadiens earned a combined $171-million in profits during the 2011-12 season. The other 27 clubs lost a collective $44-million, a dramatic illustration of how steep the losses are for at least half a dozen teams.
Todd Jewell, a sports economist and the chair of the Department of Economics at the University of North Texas, says there is a simple reason for the disparity.
“Once you get away from the strong hockey hotbeds, it’s really a niche sport,” he said. “There isn’t a real strong hockey culture in most of the United States. You can expand the NBA and you can go to small cites and still make some money. In hockey, once you get away from Boston or New York or Detroit, your potential fan base drops dramatically. It’s not a small drop-off. It’s huge.”
While Fehr and the players see increased revenue-sharing as the answer, the wealthy clubs disagree. Peddie said people need to realize gross revenue does not translate to large profits for some clubs because they have high expenses.
“What I come back to and haven’t seen reported is this: Is the league making money in total?” Peddie said. “If it’s not, then revenue-sharing just moves around the losses.”
Peddie would like to see the NHL move toward the NBA’s system, which has each club contribute 50 per cent of its annual revenue, minus some expenses, into a pool. Then each club draws a share equal to the NBA’s average payroll from the pool. This allows the rich clubs to spend more by exceeding the average payroll, but they also contribute more to the revenue-sharing pool.
“[The NBA] is proving the whole league can make money,” Peddie said of the plan. But the NHL cannot afford that type of system, Peddie said, until it, too, turns a collective profit.
Revenue-sharing is not something the wealthy clubs are interested in, although the NHL reportedly is close to an agreement with the union on a revenue-sharing plan under which around $230-million would be redistributed annually, an increase of about 53 per cent from the $150-million under the former labour agreement.
However, that represents only about 7 per cent of the $3.3-billion the NHL brought in during the 2011-12 season. Major League Baseball, which found prosperity with greater revenue sharing thanks to the prodding of Fehr when he was head of that sport’s union, sees its rich clubs put 31 per cent of their local revenue into a fund shared by the poorer relations.
Maybe the federal mediators can drag some of the recalcitrant owners toward this position. They sat down Wednesday with the NHL and the union for a voluntary mediation session in Washington, D.C.
There was no word on how the meeting went, although they are to meet again Thursday.
THE LIST
2012 NHL team evaluations, according to Forbes magazine (all currency U.S.):
1. Toronto Maple Leafs – $1-billion
2. New York Rangers – $750-million
3. Montreal Canadiens – $575-million
4. Chicago Blackhawks – $350-million
5. Boston Bruins – $348-million
6. Detroit Red Wings – $346-million
7. Vancouver Canucks – $342-million
8. Philadelphia Flyers – $336-million
9. Pittsburgh Penguins – $288-million
10. Los Angeles Kings – $276-million
11. Washington Capitals – $250-million
12. Calgary Flames – $245-million
13. Dallas Stars – $240-million
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2006/12/07
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From his vantage at the University of North Texas, in the Dallas suburb of Denton, economist Todd Jewell sees contraction of the National Hockey League – especially the money pits in the southern United States – as an inevitability.
While contraction is not often discussed around the NHL, the possibility is underscored by the NHL numbers put out by Forbes, estimates of team values, revenue and operating profit/loss. And the word contraction isn’t crazy talk. Owners in baseball, just a decade ago, pursued the contraction of Montreal and Minnesota, a plan eventually shelved. In the Forbes estimates, the top three NHL teams – Toronto, New York and Montreal – make the vast bulk of the money, a combined operating profit of $208-million, but if one tallies the top six – adding Chicago, Boston, Detroit – the number is $263-million.
That figure – tallied from only six teams, 20 per cent of the NHL – is greater than the league’s operating income as an entire operation, all 30 teams coming in at $250-million (a number that is nearly doubled from the year before, Forbes said on Wednesday).
The middle NHL teams do all right, with teams seven through 20 (ranked by Forbes valuation) booking operating income of $112-million. It’s the bottom 10 that are sinkholes, losing $124-million. In sum, fewer teams are losing money: 13 on this year’s list compared with a majority, 18, last year.
Among the deepest money pits – the seven teams losing $10-million or more – four are in the U.S. south: Anaheim, Phoenix (obviously), Tampa and Florida. Jewell, who specializes in sports economics and is the chair of the economics department at North Texas, points to the southern teams in particular. He says there is weak nationwide interest in hockey in the U.S., especially outside northern hotbeds like Boston, New York, and Detroit. For Jewell, teams like the Coyotes and the Lightning just won’t work longer term.
“You’ve got to get rid of some of these teams with so little public support that can’t exist without subsidies from the rest of the league,” said Jewell. “I just don’t think the National Hockey League can survive with as many teams as it has in the southern states.
“But contraction’s tough for the league to do, because it’s admitting failure. It’s admitting they’re not a big enough sport to survive in Phoenix.”
Contraction, to the minds of some, would be great, sharpening up the game with better players concentrated on fewer teams. But most people can see that it seems improbable, given that owners and players would both stand against it, the owners because it would cost money, and the players because it would cost jobs.
Still, just a decade ago in baseball, owners voted overwhelming in favour of contracting Minneapolis and Montreal, a decision in late 2001. There was blowback from the union – then run by one Don Fehr – and the idea hit a legal wall and by the next year, in the 2002 collective bargaining agreement Fehr brokered, one plank was the agreement to stay at 30 clubs through 2006 – with the chance to possible cut two in 2007.
It didn’t happen, of course, as Minneapolis was revived, and the Expos bounced south to Washington, the first relocation in Major League Baseball in more than three decades (when in the early 1970s Washington lost their ball team as the Senators became the Texas Rangers).
In hockey, relocation is likelier than contraction. There are now several credible homes for teams, starting in Quebec City and Seattle, and then Markham in the Toronto suburbs would seem a likely profitable home for NHL hockey.
If, say, Florida, Phoenix and Anaheim move northwards, that would greatly reduce the biggest globs of red ink losses from the NHL. Then, say, the New York Islanders, Columbus Blue Jackets, and Buffalo Sabres – also all losing $10-million-plus – improve their businesses and benefit from some increased revenue sharing. Combined, the NHL as a financial enterprise would be considerably strengthened.
As for Jewell, in the suburbs of Dallas, he notes there’s not much talk about the NHL lockout, even as the hometown Stars are idle. A bigger concern is the Mavericks, NBA champions 17 months ago and now 7-9, on a three-game losing streak that has given them a losing record and puts them in fourth in their division. The NHL? Meh.
“You might not be surprised that people around here don’t care much,” said Jewell.
Contraction a necessary evil for survival of NHL says economist - The Globe and Mail
While contraction is not often discussed around the NHL, the possibility is underscored by the NHL numbers put out by Forbes, estimates of team values, revenue and operating profit/loss. And the word contraction isn’t crazy talk. Owners in baseball, just a decade ago, pursued the contraction of Montreal and Minnesota, a plan eventually shelved. In the Forbes estimates, the top three NHL teams – Toronto, New York and Montreal – make the vast bulk of the money, a combined operating profit of $208-million, but if one tallies the top six – adding Chicago, Boston, Detroit – the number is $263-million.
That figure – tallied from only six teams, 20 per cent of the NHL – is greater than the league’s operating income as an entire operation, all 30 teams coming in at $250-million (a number that is nearly doubled from the year before, Forbes said on Wednesday).
The middle NHL teams do all right, with teams seven through 20 (ranked by Forbes valuation) booking operating income of $112-million. It’s the bottom 10 that are sinkholes, losing $124-million. In sum, fewer teams are losing money: 13 on this year’s list compared with a majority, 18, last year.
Among the deepest money pits – the seven teams losing $10-million or more – four are in the U.S. south: Anaheim, Phoenix (obviously), Tampa and Florida. Jewell, who specializes in sports economics and is the chair of the economics department at North Texas, points to the southern teams in particular. He says there is weak nationwide interest in hockey in the U.S., especially outside northern hotbeds like Boston, New York, and Detroit. For Jewell, teams like the Coyotes and the Lightning just won’t work longer term.
“You’ve got to get rid of some of these teams with so little public support that can’t exist without subsidies from the rest of the league,” said Jewell. “I just don’t think the National Hockey League can survive with as many teams as it has in the southern states.
“But contraction’s tough for the league to do, because it’s admitting failure. It’s admitting they’re not a big enough sport to survive in Phoenix.”
Contraction, to the minds of some, would be great, sharpening up the game with better players concentrated on fewer teams. But most people can see that it seems improbable, given that owners and players would both stand against it, the owners because it would cost money, and the players because it would cost jobs.
Still, just a decade ago in baseball, owners voted overwhelming in favour of contracting Minneapolis and Montreal, a decision in late 2001. There was blowback from the union – then run by one Don Fehr – and the idea hit a legal wall and by the next year, in the 2002 collective bargaining agreement Fehr brokered, one plank was the agreement to stay at 30 clubs through 2006 – with the chance to possible cut two in 2007.
It didn’t happen, of course, as Minneapolis was revived, and the Expos bounced south to Washington, the first relocation in Major League Baseball in more than three decades (when in the early 1970s Washington lost their ball team as the Senators became the Texas Rangers).
In hockey, relocation is likelier than contraction. There are now several credible homes for teams, starting in Quebec City and Seattle, and then Markham in the Toronto suburbs would seem a likely profitable home for NHL hockey.
If, say, Florida, Phoenix and Anaheim move northwards, that would greatly reduce the biggest globs of red ink losses from the NHL. Then, say, the New York Islanders, Columbus Blue Jackets, and Buffalo Sabres – also all losing $10-million-plus – improve their businesses and benefit from some increased revenue sharing. Combined, the NHL as a financial enterprise would be considerably strengthened.
As for Jewell, in the suburbs of Dallas, he notes there’s not much talk about the NHL lockout, even as the hometown Stars are idle. A bigger concern is the Mavericks, NBA champions 17 months ago and now 7-9, on a three-game losing streak that has given them a losing record and puts them in fourth in their division. The NHL? Meh.
“You might not be surprised that people around here don’t care much,” said Jewell.
Contraction a necessary evil for survival of NHL says economist - The Globe and Mail
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2006/12/07
Messages:
29893
Major League Soccer and the National Hockey League crossed paths this week going in opposite directions.
Heading into Saturday’s championship game between the Houston Dynamo and Los Angeles Galaxy, MLS Commissioner Dan Garber sounded victorious. The MLS set new attendance records and averaged nearly 19,000 fans a game this season, including 114 sellouts. The improving level of play, made possible by the addition of a new class of international talents such as Robbie Keane and Thierry Henry, has made the game more attractive for fans, who are embracing their teams. “There’s a true supporters culture that is developing in MLS that is providing us a true point of difference,” Garber said. And you can see in places like Seattle, where the games have a distinctly European feel. (Without the drunken louts and fan violence.) The league is strong enough that the pending loss of David Beckham, who since 2007 has single handedly provided MLS with an identity, can be considered a healthy transition.
Maybe NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman should hire Becks to juggle a ball wearing ice skates. It’s about the only entertainment his league might provide this season if it doesn’t end the current lockout of players, now in its third month. The players have offered a 50/50 revenue split with the owners, down from the 57% they are currently taking. The owners aren’t satisfied with sharing. Even two days of talks that included the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service failed to move the puck. “We are disappointed that the mediation process was not successful,” said NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly. Disappointed but he couldn’t have been surprised given the league’s intransigence.
(MORE: Why Liverpool Fans Are Loving Chelsea’s New Coach)
The NHL’s policy of exclusion—we’re not going to negotiate anything, and we don’t want to honor the player contracts that we’ve already signed—is a sports version of the Republican party. This is the second lockout that Bettman has orchestrated—the entire 2004-2005 season was lost on his watch. It’s a bitter holdout by what seems to be a few extreme owners bent on bringing the players to heel at the expense of the ticket-buying general public. We’ve seen what voters thought of the GOP‘s strategy. They reelected a left-handed basketball player.
Meanwhile in the north part of North America, the MLS added a team in the very heart of ice hockey this year, the Montreal Impact. It’s the third MLS team in Canada, and the new boys drew crowds of 60,000 plus at the Olympic Stadium before moving into the cozier confines of Stade Saputo. It sets up a potential new rivalry with Toronto FC, another relatively recent arrival to MLS, and one that could offset the historic Canadiens/Maple Leafs faceoff. (Although FC Toronto seems as lame as the Leafs have been over the last, oh, 30 years.) MLS is finding a deep fan base up north of the border, a contrast to the disappointment of the NHL’s southern strategy in planting teams in places such as Phoenix (bankrupt), Atlanta (moved), Tampa and Miami (quick, what’s the team’s name?). The growth of MLS in the U.S. and Canada, and the characteristics of the fan base say a lot about the future of the game. “The demographics don’t lie: our two countries have become soccer nations,” said Garber. Those same demographics—more Hispanic, less white— are a warning sign to the NHL, which apparently believes it can abuse its fans without consequences. MLS is growing because it has nurtured its fan base. It had to, given that MLS was essentially selling a foreign product in its early days. But that is no longer true. Global football is our ball.
So while soccer grows, the NHL is sliding. Many of the NHL’s stars are already playing in Europe, so the strike isn’t hurting them as much as perhaps the owners had hoped. Some of these players might choose to stay in Europe permanently—in other words, they’d prefer a Russian hockey league team owner to an American or Canadian — rather than worry about the NHL’s despots taking money out of their pockets.
So here’s a proposal to bring hockey back. NHL players should form their own league. (What is it that owners do, anyway?)There are plenty of arenas available, some publicly financed or owned. For instance, in the New York City area, there’s the Izod Center in nearby East Rutherford and the Barclay’s in Brooklyn, which don’t house NHL teams at the moment. In Detroit, the Palace at Auburn Hills is available, isn’t it? In Canada, there are a jillion places to place hockey.
Or better yet, consider that the NHL has had enormous success playing ice hockey outside in its Winter Classic. And MLS’s cozy, soccer specific stadiums, which typically seat 25,000 fans, all of them close to the action, would be perfect sites for outdoor hockey come December. The fans can wear team scarves (they might need to) and sing team songs, just like soccer fans do. The NHL would never be missed.
Read more: Why Soccer Threatens the NHL | TIME-com
Heading into Saturday’s championship game between the Houston Dynamo and Los Angeles Galaxy, MLS Commissioner Dan Garber sounded victorious. The MLS set new attendance records and averaged nearly 19,000 fans a game this season, including 114 sellouts. The improving level of play, made possible by the addition of a new class of international talents such as Robbie Keane and Thierry Henry, has made the game more attractive for fans, who are embracing their teams. “There’s a true supporters culture that is developing in MLS that is providing us a true point of difference,” Garber said. And you can see in places like Seattle, where the games have a distinctly European feel. (Without the drunken louts and fan violence.) The league is strong enough that the pending loss of David Beckham, who since 2007 has single handedly provided MLS with an identity, can be considered a healthy transition.
Maybe NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman should hire Becks to juggle a ball wearing ice skates. It’s about the only entertainment his league might provide this season if it doesn’t end the current lockout of players, now in its third month. The players have offered a 50/50 revenue split with the owners, down from the 57% they are currently taking. The owners aren’t satisfied with sharing. Even two days of talks that included the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service failed to move the puck. “We are disappointed that the mediation process was not successful,” said NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly. Disappointed but he couldn’t have been surprised given the league’s intransigence.
(MORE: Why Liverpool Fans Are Loving Chelsea’s New Coach)
The NHL’s policy of exclusion—we’re not going to negotiate anything, and we don’t want to honor the player contracts that we’ve already signed—is a sports version of the Republican party. This is the second lockout that Bettman has orchestrated—the entire 2004-2005 season was lost on his watch. It’s a bitter holdout by what seems to be a few extreme owners bent on bringing the players to heel at the expense of the ticket-buying general public. We’ve seen what voters thought of the GOP‘s strategy. They reelected a left-handed basketball player.
Meanwhile in the north part of North America, the MLS added a team in the very heart of ice hockey this year, the Montreal Impact. It’s the third MLS team in Canada, and the new boys drew crowds of 60,000 plus at the Olympic Stadium before moving into the cozier confines of Stade Saputo. It sets up a potential new rivalry with Toronto FC, another relatively recent arrival to MLS, and one that could offset the historic Canadiens/Maple Leafs faceoff. (Although FC Toronto seems as lame as the Leafs have been over the last, oh, 30 years.) MLS is finding a deep fan base up north of the border, a contrast to the disappointment of the NHL’s southern strategy in planting teams in places such as Phoenix (bankrupt), Atlanta (moved), Tampa and Miami (quick, what’s the team’s name?). The growth of MLS in the U.S. and Canada, and the characteristics of the fan base say a lot about the future of the game. “The demographics don’t lie: our two countries have become soccer nations,” said Garber. Those same demographics—more Hispanic, less white— are a warning sign to the NHL, which apparently believes it can abuse its fans without consequences. MLS is growing because it has nurtured its fan base. It had to, given that MLS was essentially selling a foreign product in its early days. But that is no longer true. Global football is our ball.
So while soccer grows, the NHL is sliding. Many of the NHL’s stars are already playing in Europe, so the strike isn’t hurting them as much as perhaps the owners had hoped. Some of these players might choose to stay in Europe permanently—in other words, they’d prefer a Russian hockey league team owner to an American or Canadian — rather than worry about the NHL’s despots taking money out of their pockets.
So here’s a proposal to bring hockey back. NHL players should form their own league. (What is it that owners do, anyway?)There are plenty of arenas available, some publicly financed or owned. For instance, in the New York City area, there’s the Izod Center in nearby East Rutherford and the Barclay’s in Brooklyn, which don’t house NHL teams at the moment. In Detroit, the Palace at Auburn Hills is available, isn’t it? In Canada, there are a jillion places to place hockey.
Or better yet, consider that the NHL has had enormous success playing ice hockey outside in its Winter Classic. And MLS’s cozy, soccer specific stadiums, which typically seat 25,000 fans, all of them close to the action, would be perfect sites for outdoor hockey come December. The fans can wear team scarves (they might need to) and sing team songs, just like soccer fans do. The NHL would never be missed.
Read more: Why Soccer Threatens the NHL | TIME-com
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The NHL lockout has now entered its 11th week and it seems like a long time ago that the players received their escrow checks from last season. Since then their income has dried up unless they have found work in other leagues, and even then it likely hasn't been a ton of money.
So now to help out, the NHLPA has reportedly decided to go ahead and give all of its players a $10,000 stipend, according to Katie Strang of ESPN New York. That's why the NHLPA had a bunch of money saved up, for a rainy day just like this.
The news of the stipend comes just a day after the players missed what would have been their fourth check of the hockey season, and that's likely no coincidence. At this point players are probably starting to feel the squeeze, at least as much as professional athletes can feel squeezed.
Of course the easily pessimistic view point here is that the NHLPA is handing out these stipends to players in what could be seen as anticipation of a long, cold winter. It's not much -- by their pay standards, not most people's standards -- but it's a little more than grocery money. If the players union saw a deal coming around the corner, you wonder if they would be handing out cash now.
At this time the first scheduled games won't come until mid-December but without a deal soon the NHL could cancel another chunk of games from the calendar and at this point it seems like an inevitability, so this stipend might have to stretch for another month at least.
No meetings are scheduled at this point but the NHLPA continues to mull over a suggestion from commissioner Gary Bettman for a meeting solely between the players and owners without any league officials or union representation. A decision is expected soon from the union. Also on the horizon is the Board of Governors meetings on Dec. 5 where there could be some movement, one way or the other, when all of the teams are represented.
NHL lockout: Report: NHLPA to give players $10,000 stipends - CBSSports-com
So now to help out, the NHLPA has reportedly decided to go ahead and give all of its players a $10,000 stipend, according to Katie Strang of ESPN New York. That's why the NHLPA had a bunch of money saved up, for a rainy day just like this.
The news of the stipend comes just a day after the players missed what would have been their fourth check of the hockey season, and that's likely no coincidence. At this point players are probably starting to feel the squeeze, at least as much as professional athletes can feel squeezed.
Of course the easily pessimistic view point here is that the NHLPA is handing out these stipends to players in what could be seen as anticipation of a long, cold winter. It's not much -- by their pay standards, not most people's standards -- but it's a little more than grocery money. If the players union saw a deal coming around the corner, you wonder if they would be handing out cash now.
At this time the first scheduled games won't come until mid-December but without a deal soon the NHL could cancel another chunk of games from the calendar and at this point it seems like an inevitability, so this stipend might have to stretch for another month at least.
No meetings are scheduled at this point but the NHLPA continues to mull over a suggestion from commissioner Gary Bettman for a meeting solely between the players and owners without any league officials or union representation. A decision is expected soon from the union. Also on the horizon is the Board of Governors meetings on Dec. 5 where there could be some movement, one way or the other, when all of the teams are represented.
NHL lockout: Report: NHLPA to give players $10,000 stipends - CBSSports-com
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Six NHL owners and six players will meet Tuesday in New York for direct labor talks, a new approach to resolving a dispute that has jeopardized the season.
The NHL Players' Assn. on Sunday accepted the league's invitation to convene without the presence of Commissioner Gary Bettman or NHLPA Executive Director Donald Fehr. Each side will be permitted to bring staff members and counsel to the session.
NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly said Sunday the league will be represented by California billionaire Ron Burkle of the Pittsburgh Penguins, Mark Chipman of the Winnipeg Jets, Murray Edwards of the Calgary Flames, Jeremy Jacobs of the Boston Bruins, Larry Tanenbaum of the Toronto Maple Leafs and Jeff Vinik of the Tampa Bay Lightning. "We will provide further details when available and as appropriate," Daly said.
The NHLPA did not identify its delegation.
Fehr said the meeting "should facilitate dialogue between players and owners." He added, "There will be owners attending this meeting who have not previously done so, which is encouraging and which we welcome. We hope that this meeting will be constructive and lead to a dialogue that will help us find a way to reach an agreement."
The NHL Players' Assn. on Sunday accepted the league's invitation to convene without the presence of Commissioner Gary Bettman or NHLPA Executive Director Donald Fehr. Each side will be permitted to bring staff members and counsel to the session.
NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly said Sunday the league will be represented by California billionaire Ron Burkle of the Pittsburgh Penguins, Mark Chipman of the Winnipeg Jets, Murray Edwards of the Calgary Flames, Jeremy Jacobs of the Boston Bruins, Larry Tanenbaum of the Toronto Maple Leafs and Jeff Vinik of the Tampa Bay Lightning. "We will provide further details when available and as appropriate," Daly said.
The NHLPA did not identify its delegation.
Fehr said the meeting "should facilitate dialogue between players and owners." He added, "There will be owners attending this meeting who have not previously done so, which is encouraging and which we welcome. We hope that this meeting will be constructive and lead to a dialogue that will help us find a way to reach an agreement."
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The first casualty in all management-labor battles is perspective. The parties always focus on what they are losing, or what they need. No one ever mentions what they have.
That's certainly true in the NHL collective bargaining battle between owners and players. We hear how owners need changes to ensure the NHL is financially viable. We hear how players are being forced to surrender contract rights and are having their earning potential limited.
What we aren't talking about is that NHL has had a 50% revenue growth from the last lockout until this one, with hockey-related revenue growing from $2.1 billion to $3.3 billion. We aren't talking about the fact the average NHL salary been inching toward $2.5 million per season even with a salary cap in place.
We certainly aren't talking about the fact that the game's national footprint is much wider and deeper than anyone thought was possible a decade ago.
Just six months ago, it seemed as NHL was in midst of probably the most exciting business period in league history. Every NHL playoff game was televised nationally. Ratings were up. Sponsorships were up. The NHL's attractiveness and desirability in the corporate world seemed like it was at an all-time high There was buzz about a Winter Classic drawing more than 115,000 to Ann Arbor, Mich. Players are getting paid well. What recession? The NHL seemed poised to enter the golden era. But with the NHL lockout in its 79th day, it seems as if that has been forgotten.
Anger is in control of the NHL CBA negotiations. Both sides view the other side as being unreasonable when it comes to determining what's fair. There is enough rage on both sides of the argument to fuel the blowing up of the entire season.
That's why Tuesday's meeting between players and owners without Commissioner Gary Bettman and NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr is important.
No one expects six owners and six players to truly bargain. The real hope is new voices might bring reason and calm to an negotiation that is top heavy with emotion and distrust.
The hope would be that perhaps a player and/or owner would remind everyone that owners and players will be going over their own financial cliff together if they don't work together.
Players are looking at the possibility of losing more than $1.5 billion in salary if the season is canceled. Even if you accept that some NHL teams will lose less money by not playing, major market teams are losing plenty. More important, owners are risking long-term damage to a sport that seemed to finally be making its mark as a national sport.
The truth is that owners don't know how fans will react if the NHL cancels its season for the second time in eight years.
Both sides are so entrenched in their convictions that they can't see any way to get a deal done. Any outsider looking at this situation would wonder why they can't get one done.
TIMELINE: Daily look at the lockout
The $182 million separating the two sides is not enough to risk more than $3 billion. The individual contracting rights issues seem more significant, but it's hard not to believe that a compromise could be found if the two sides could view this more as a business negotiation than a war. Currently, they are working too hard to dislike each other.
What is needed on Tuesday is for one owner to rise up like New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft did in the NFL negotiations, to stray from the pack just long enough to say something needs to be done before it's too late.
Maybe it will be a player who will be the hero of these negotiations. Maybe one impassioned speech is all that is needed to show the path to a compromise. Given all of the buzz among players about union decertification, this hope might qualify as a long shot. But sports has taught us that athletes can step up when it is least expected.
If Tuesday's meeting isn't the start of the final push toward a deal, it might signal the beginning of the end of the season. To even have a 48-game season, we would have to start play in late January. We could be in countdown mode soon.
Owners and players don't agree about much these days, but they would have to agree there will be no soft landings for anyone if the NHL goes over the fiscal cliff for second time. Everyone will get hurt badly.
NHL sides must find way to step back from cliff edge
That's certainly true in the NHL collective bargaining battle between owners and players. We hear how owners need changes to ensure the NHL is financially viable. We hear how players are being forced to surrender contract rights and are having their earning potential limited.
What we aren't talking about is that NHL has had a 50% revenue growth from the last lockout until this one, with hockey-related revenue growing from $2.1 billion to $3.3 billion. We aren't talking about the fact the average NHL salary been inching toward $2.5 million per season even with a salary cap in place.
We certainly aren't talking about the fact that the game's national footprint is much wider and deeper than anyone thought was possible a decade ago.
Just six months ago, it seemed as NHL was in midst of probably the most exciting business period in league history. Every NHL playoff game was televised nationally. Ratings were up. Sponsorships were up. The NHL's attractiveness and desirability in the corporate world seemed like it was at an all-time high There was buzz about a Winter Classic drawing more than 115,000 to Ann Arbor, Mich. Players are getting paid well. What recession? The NHL seemed poised to enter the golden era. But with the NHL lockout in its 79th day, it seems as if that has been forgotten.
Anger is in control of the NHL CBA negotiations. Both sides view the other side as being unreasonable when it comes to determining what's fair. There is enough rage on both sides of the argument to fuel the blowing up of the entire season.
That's why Tuesday's meeting between players and owners without Commissioner Gary Bettman and NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr is important.
No one expects six owners and six players to truly bargain. The real hope is new voices might bring reason and calm to an negotiation that is top heavy with emotion and distrust.
The hope would be that perhaps a player and/or owner would remind everyone that owners and players will be going over their own financial cliff together if they don't work together.
Players are looking at the possibility of losing more than $1.5 billion in salary if the season is canceled. Even if you accept that some NHL teams will lose less money by not playing, major market teams are losing plenty. More important, owners are risking long-term damage to a sport that seemed to finally be making its mark as a national sport.
The truth is that owners don't know how fans will react if the NHL cancels its season for the second time in eight years.
Both sides are so entrenched in their convictions that they can't see any way to get a deal done. Any outsider looking at this situation would wonder why they can't get one done.
TIMELINE: Daily look at the lockout
The $182 million separating the two sides is not enough to risk more than $3 billion. The individual contracting rights issues seem more significant, but it's hard not to believe that a compromise could be found if the two sides could view this more as a business negotiation than a war. Currently, they are working too hard to dislike each other.
What is needed on Tuesday is for one owner to rise up like New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft did in the NFL negotiations, to stray from the pack just long enough to say something needs to be done before it's too late.
Maybe it will be a player who will be the hero of these negotiations. Maybe one impassioned speech is all that is needed to show the path to a compromise. Given all of the buzz among players about union decertification, this hope might qualify as a long shot. But sports has taught us that athletes can step up when it is least expected.
If Tuesday's meeting isn't the start of the final push toward a deal, it might signal the beginning of the end of the season. To even have a 48-game season, we would have to start play in late January. We could be in countdown mode soon.
Owners and players don't agree about much these days, but they would have to agree there will be no soft landings for anyone if the NHL goes over the fiscal cliff for second time. Everyone will get hurt badly.
NHL sides must find way to step back from cliff edge
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The biggest losers in the National Hockey League lockout may not be sidelined millionaire players, their billionaire bosses or even frustrated fans, but people who work in bars and restaurants closest to the darkened arenas, says a new report.
Moneris Solutions, Canada’s largest credit and debit card processor, said Tuesday that restaurants and bars near Canadian NHL venues are seeing sharp decreases in customer spending in 2012, compared to a game day in 2011.
The company says its report is a snapshot of consumer spending activity in Canada based on analyzing credit and debit card transaction data.
The report shows an overall decrease of 11.23 per cent in dollars spent at food and beverage businesses near NHL arenas in Canada. Drinking establishments close to hockey arenas saw spending plunge 34.7 per cent, according to the report. Fast-food outlets and restaurants have seen dollars spent drop by nearly seven per cent and 10.5 per cent respectively. In Edmonton alone, fast-food restaurants near the arena have suffered a 27-per-cent drop in spending.
“It’s hurting us bad, really bad,” said Laura Heise, a server and manager at the Fireside Restaurant, just a hard slapshot across Wayne Gretzky Drive from Rexall Place where the Oilers usually play. “On Oil nights, we have people outside the door waiting to get in,” Heise said.
Five servers worked a shift at the restaurant on game nights. With no NHL action on tap, there are only enough customers for one server. So far, no one has been laid off, however.
“Trying not to, but it’s pretty hard to keep the girls on when I can’t give them any shifts.”
Heise said she and her staff are crossing their fingers for NHL action to resume soon.
“There’s no Christmas this year for us.”
A few blocks west, at Coliseum Pizza and Steak, a restaurant where past Oilers greats were known to frequent, manager Dimitra Scordas said the current Oilers are sorely missed.
“There’s definitely a difference, definitely,” she said. “On a given night now in our dining room we probably have six to 10 people whereas on an event night we probably would have had 15.”
Because most staff are part-time, the business has avoided layoffs, Scordas said. Increased attendance for Oil Kings junior hockey games at Rexall Place is helping pick up some slack.
“And we get most of the out-of-town teams, they come here post-game and have dinner.”
But Scordas says it’s not all about business when it comes to the Oilers.
“We also miss our hockey team over and above the business aspect. … We want to see some hockey.”
The Moneris report says not all merchants are suffering, especially those outside arena vicinities. Overall spending at bars outside arena areas is up nearly 19 per cent compared to a game day in 2011. Fast-food and restaurant spending away from NHL rinks is also up 11.5 per cent and 4.9 per cent, respectively.
“While overall spending at establishments near hockey arenas is down, it would appear that Canadians are simply choosing to stick closer to home,” said Jim Baumgartner, president and CEO of Moneris.
NHL lockout hits some businesses on the bottom line
Moneris Solutions, Canada’s largest credit and debit card processor, said Tuesday that restaurants and bars near Canadian NHL venues are seeing sharp decreases in customer spending in 2012, compared to a game day in 2011.
The company says its report is a snapshot of consumer spending activity in Canada based on analyzing credit and debit card transaction data.
The report shows an overall decrease of 11.23 per cent in dollars spent at food and beverage businesses near NHL arenas in Canada. Drinking establishments close to hockey arenas saw spending plunge 34.7 per cent, according to the report. Fast-food outlets and restaurants have seen dollars spent drop by nearly seven per cent and 10.5 per cent respectively. In Edmonton alone, fast-food restaurants near the arena have suffered a 27-per-cent drop in spending.
“It’s hurting us bad, really bad,” said Laura Heise, a server and manager at the Fireside Restaurant, just a hard slapshot across Wayne Gretzky Drive from Rexall Place where the Oilers usually play. “On Oil nights, we have people outside the door waiting to get in,” Heise said.
Five servers worked a shift at the restaurant on game nights. With no NHL action on tap, there are only enough customers for one server. So far, no one has been laid off, however.
“Trying not to, but it’s pretty hard to keep the girls on when I can’t give them any shifts.”
Heise said she and her staff are crossing their fingers for NHL action to resume soon.
“There’s no Christmas this year for us.”
A few blocks west, at Coliseum Pizza and Steak, a restaurant where past Oilers greats were known to frequent, manager Dimitra Scordas said the current Oilers are sorely missed.
“There’s definitely a difference, definitely,” she said. “On a given night now in our dining room we probably have six to 10 people whereas on an event night we probably would have had 15.”
Because most staff are part-time, the business has avoided layoffs, Scordas said. Increased attendance for Oil Kings junior hockey games at Rexall Place is helping pick up some slack.
“And we get most of the out-of-town teams, they come here post-game and have dinner.”
But Scordas says it’s not all about business when it comes to the Oilers.
“We also miss our hockey team over and above the business aspect. … We want to see some hockey.”
The Moneris report says not all merchants are suffering, especially those outside arena vicinities. Overall spending at bars outside arena areas is up nearly 19 per cent compared to a game day in 2011. Fast-food and restaurant spending away from NHL rinks is also up 11.5 per cent and 4.9 per cent, respectively.
“While overall spending at establishments near hockey arenas is down, it would appear that Canadians are simply choosing to stick closer to home,” said Jim Baumgartner, president and CEO of Moneris.
NHL lockout hits some businesses on the bottom line
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2006/12/07
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Wednesday was another marathon day of CBA talks, with little divulged in about nine hours of meetings between owners and players. Lots of podium face time, though. The NHL and NHLPA met for about nine hours on Tuesday, and Wednesday, they repeated the feat, meeting for another nine hours and driving the entire hockey world mad by not releasing a single detail.
So after hours upon hours of staring at a podium, it was at least a bit of relief when NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly used that podium and lectern to give a brief statement, even if that statement came well after 1 a.m. ET.
"We had good candid, dialogue," Daly said. "A lot of issues. There continue to be some critical open issues between the two parties and we understand the union should be getting back to us [Thursday] on some of those issues."
From the players side, only Jets defenseman Ron Hainsey spoke. As was the case after Tuesday's marathon bargaining session, the silence seems to be a good thing. Earlier in this work stoppage, both sides would leak details of meetings to the media while those meetings were still in progress, and when they stepped to the microphone afterwards, they would give history lessons and spout rhetoric in frustrating fashion.
But the tone has changed. In the last 48 hours, both sides have indicated "respect for the process," as Gary Bettman put it earlier Wednesday, and are not bothering to play the PR war. An ESPN-com report claimed earlier in the evening that negotiations were "tense," but instead of the sides breaking away from the table in a cloud of anger, they seem to be committed to hammering out the details and getting a deal done.
It might be frustrating that we don't have the specifics of negotiations, but that simple fact also means that we're likely nearing that light at the end of the tunnel.
NHL lockout 2012: Long talks, more silence, lots of podium - SBNation-com
So after hours upon hours of staring at a podium, it was at least a bit of relief when NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly used that podium and lectern to give a brief statement, even if that statement came well after 1 a.m. ET.
"We had good candid, dialogue," Daly said. "A lot of issues. There continue to be some critical open issues between the two parties and we understand the union should be getting back to us [Thursday] on some of those issues."
From the players side, only Jets defenseman Ron Hainsey spoke. As was the case after Tuesday's marathon bargaining session, the silence seems to be a good thing. Earlier in this work stoppage, both sides would leak details of meetings to the media while those meetings were still in progress, and when they stepped to the microphone afterwards, they would give history lessons and spout rhetoric in frustrating fashion.
But the tone has changed. In the last 48 hours, both sides have indicated "respect for the process," as Gary Bettman put it earlier Wednesday, and are not bothering to play the PR war. An ESPN-com report claimed earlier in the evening that negotiations were "tense," but instead of the sides breaking away from the table in a cloud of anger, they seem to be committed to hammering out the details and getting a deal done.
It might be frustrating that we don't have the specifics of negotiations, but that simple fact also means that we're likely nearing that light at the end of the tunnel.
NHL lockout 2012: Long talks, more silence, lots of podium - SBNation-com
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As the NHL lockout drags on, many hockey fans are asking themselves if they will continue buying tickets when hockey returns.
At the Prescott Hotel, a woman says she doesn’t mind the lockout because it gives her more time with her partner who is a huge hockey fan. On the Team 1200, hosts Jason York and Steve Lloyd are moving onto topics other than NHL hockey to fill airtime.
At a pickup hockey game, some of the players say they have moved on. A longtime season ticket holder says he has found other ways to spend his money.
The longer the lockout lasts, he asked himself, will he come back?
Read more: As NHL lockout drags on will hockey fans return? | CTV Ottawa News
At the Prescott Hotel, a woman says she doesn’t mind the lockout because it gives her more time with her partner who is a huge hockey fan. On the Team 1200, hosts Jason York and Steve Lloyd are moving onto topics other than NHL hockey to fill airtime.
At a pickup hockey game, some of the players say they have moved on. A longtime season ticket holder says he has found other ways to spend his money.
The longer the lockout lasts, he asked himself, will he come back?
Read more: As NHL lockout drags on will hockey fans return? | CTV Ottawa News
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The lockout is in its 84th day, and there will be no resolution, according to the players, without the union head Donald Fehr being part of the negotiations. There was optimism earlier this week to save the season when some owners met with a group of players without Fehr or other union staff members present. Shortly after those talks ended, however, the players told the owners that all future meetings must include union leadership.
The owners told the players that bringing Fehr back “could be a deal breaker,” according to Ron Hainsey, a Winnipeg defenseman.
Players responded by ending the meetings early Thursday morning after an all-night session.
“If they’re unwilling to meet without our leadership, we’ve got a problem, because we literally cannot close the deal without them for a number of reasons, legal and otherwise,” Hainsey said Friday. “It leads you to believe that you’ll have a very difficult time reaching a deal at all.”
The long, tense negotiating session at a Midtown Manhattan hotel that began Wednesday was the turning point when optimism for a season-saving settlement turned to rancor.
The talks blew up when Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly left a voice mail message rejecting the union offer, even as Fehr was telling reporters that the sides had reached agreement on several key points.
There was no contact between the league and the union Friday.
Hainsey said players were making informational phone calls to union membership before discussing the union’s next step.
“The reaction from the players has been pretty strong,” he said.
On Tuesday, meetings were held by mutual agreement without Commissioner Gary Bettman and Fehr. The players were accompanied only by Steve Fehr, the union’s special counsel, with the league represented by Daly and six owners.
It was an arrangement Bettman had requested.
“It was just players talking to owners, and Steve Fehr and Bill Daly were in there but not engaging, just taking notes,” Hainsey said.
The arrangement, which produced what Steve Fehr called “our best day so far,” remained in place when talks resumed Wednesday afternoon.
The negotiations grew tense, and at one point the Bruins owner Jeremy Jacobs threatened to walk out.
“There was more pressure for more and more meetings going faster and faster, with a smaller group of owners and a smaller group of players,” Hainsey said.
Daly, owners, Steve Fehr and players were seen dashing upstairs and downstairs every 10 to 15 minutes. Donald Fehr was still sidelined.
Finally, late Thursday night, the owners’ delegation knocked on the union’s caucus-room door and asked for another brief meeting. Hainsey and a small group of players agreed to meet the owners, and the Fehr brothers approved.
“The players there and everyone made the decision that we were authorized to go in and listen to what was said, and come back and repeat it,” Hainsey said.
Hainsey said that in the three-minute meeting the owners outlined a point in their pension offer. He said he informed the owners twice that the players were authorized only to listen and take the information back to their caucus room.
The players returned to their caucus room and decided it was time to call in leadership, including Donald Fehr, Hainsey said.
“We then went upstairs to inform them that we were willing to talk to them with our entire staff, and that’s when we were told that could be a deal breaker,” Hainsey said.
Hainsey declined to say which owner said the presence of Fehr could be a deal breaker, but Hainsey noted that the statement was made soon after the players had met alone with the owners. At the time four owners were involved in the talk: Jacobs, Murray Edwards of Calgary, Ron Burkle of Pittsburgh and Jeff Vinik of Tampa Bay.
In a statement Thursday, Burkle expressed surprise that “the Fehrs made a unilateral and ‘nonnegotiable’ decision” to return to the negotiating process.
“Not sure what ‘deal breaker’ means,” Daly said via e-mail Friday when asked about Hainsey’s account. “Our owners were very invested in the ‘players/owners only’ format and were disappointed in the unilateral change.”
No Fehr? No Deal, Say N.H.L. Players - NYTimes-com
The owners told the players that bringing Fehr back “could be a deal breaker,” according to Ron Hainsey, a Winnipeg defenseman.
Players responded by ending the meetings early Thursday morning after an all-night session.
“If they’re unwilling to meet without our leadership, we’ve got a problem, because we literally cannot close the deal without them for a number of reasons, legal and otherwise,” Hainsey said Friday. “It leads you to believe that you’ll have a very difficult time reaching a deal at all.”
The long, tense negotiating session at a Midtown Manhattan hotel that began Wednesday was the turning point when optimism for a season-saving settlement turned to rancor.
The talks blew up when Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly left a voice mail message rejecting the union offer, even as Fehr was telling reporters that the sides had reached agreement on several key points.
There was no contact between the league and the union Friday.
Hainsey said players were making informational phone calls to union membership before discussing the union’s next step.
“The reaction from the players has been pretty strong,” he said.
On Tuesday, meetings were held by mutual agreement without Commissioner Gary Bettman and Fehr. The players were accompanied only by Steve Fehr, the union’s special counsel, with the league represented by Daly and six owners.
It was an arrangement Bettman had requested.
“It was just players talking to owners, and Steve Fehr and Bill Daly were in there but not engaging, just taking notes,” Hainsey said.
The arrangement, which produced what Steve Fehr called “our best day so far,” remained in place when talks resumed Wednesday afternoon.
The negotiations grew tense, and at one point the Bruins owner Jeremy Jacobs threatened to walk out.
“There was more pressure for more and more meetings going faster and faster, with a smaller group of owners and a smaller group of players,” Hainsey said.
Daly, owners, Steve Fehr and players were seen dashing upstairs and downstairs every 10 to 15 minutes. Donald Fehr was still sidelined.
Finally, late Thursday night, the owners’ delegation knocked on the union’s caucus-room door and asked for another brief meeting. Hainsey and a small group of players agreed to meet the owners, and the Fehr brothers approved.
“The players there and everyone made the decision that we were authorized to go in and listen to what was said, and come back and repeat it,” Hainsey said.
Hainsey said that in the three-minute meeting the owners outlined a point in their pension offer. He said he informed the owners twice that the players were authorized only to listen and take the information back to their caucus room.
The players returned to their caucus room and decided it was time to call in leadership, including Donald Fehr, Hainsey said.
“We then went upstairs to inform them that we were willing to talk to them with our entire staff, and that’s when we were told that could be a deal breaker,” Hainsey said.
Hainsey declined to say which owner said the presence of Fehr could be a deal breaker, but Hainsey noted that the statement was made soon after the players had met alone with the owners. At the time four owners were involved in the talk: Jacobs, Murray Edwards of Calgary, Ron Burkle of Pittsburgh and Jeff Vinik of Tampa Bay.
In a statement Thursday, Burkle expressed surprise that “the Fehrs made a unilateral and ‘nonnegotiable’ decision” to return to the negotiating process.
“Not sure what ‘deal breaker’ means,” Daly said via e-mail Friday when asked about Hainsey’s account. “Our owners were very invested in the ‘players/owners only’ format and were disappointed in the unilateral change.”
No Fehr? No Deal, Say N.H.L. Players - NYTimes-com
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Union chief Donald Fehr is sticking to his story that a deal with the NHL to end the four-month lockout was close before talks suddenly broke off this week.
The NHL Players' Association executive director repeated earlier remarks that an agreement appeared to be within reach Thursday night when the league rejected the union's latest proposal and rescinded its own.
"My comments from a couple of days ago stand on their own. I think we were very close," Fehr told reporters Saturday after addressing a Canadian Auto Workers council meeting.
Fehr's comments run contrary to NHL commissioner Gary Bettman, who said angrily Thursday he didn't think the owners and players were close to a deal and didn't know why Fehr claimed otherwise.
Fehr said he hasn't spoken directly with Bettman or deputy commissioner Bill Daly since talks crumbled, adding there has been some minor chatter between the sides, but that no future meetings have been scheduled. "So far, they have not indicated a willingness to continue discussions," Fehr said.
Daly told The Associated Press in an email Friday night that he didn't have any thoughts how to restart the process.
"I have no reason, nor any intention, of reaching out to the union right now," he wrote. "I have no new ideas. Maybe they do. We are happy to listen."
Fehr declined Saturday to comment directly on remarks by Bettman that questioned Fehr's motives for saying a deal was close, saying only he was disappointed with how things turned out. Fehr even urged those listening to his speech to deliver any suggestions on how to make a deal to him.
"I'm always disappointed when you're involved in a process and people want to call a halt to it," Fehr said. "The one thing we know for certain is that you can't make agreements if you're not talking about it."
The sides will have to renew negotiations soon if the remainder of the NHL season is to be saved. The lockout has resulted in the cancellation of 422 regular-season games through Dec. 14, along with the New Year's Day Winter Classic and the All-Star Game.
"I was in the room the whole time, every time," said Los Angeles Kings forward Kevin Westgarth, a member of the union negotiating team who played in a charity hockey game featuring 36 NHL players Saturday night in Windsor, Ontario. "We made a ton of progress. That was obvious. There's no argument that we're not closer than we were, but it's a shame things turned out the way they did.
"At this point, though, nothing surprises me. They get everybody's expectations up and then dash them. It's unfortunate. It's a shame we're not playing this game at the Joe or anywhere else in the NHL."
Edmonton Oilers captain Shawn Horcoff, who also took part in this week's negotiations in New York, agreed with Fehr and Westgarth that the sides definitely took steps toward a deal.
"We're closer," Horcoff said during the second intermission of Saturday night's game. "It wasn't like we're farther apart. We made progress toward a deal on the key issues, but we're just not there yet. Hopefully after a couple days we can get back at it.
"The worst thing would be to take time off and not meet. You got to get in there. Especially as someone being in there, some talks go good and some talks go bad. But you're figuring things out, trying new ideas, what works and what doesn't work and you're moving forward."
Bettman indicated the league wouldn't consider a schedule of fewer than 48 games -- the same length it had after the 1994-95 lockout -- which leaves roughly a month to reach an agreement.
But Fehr said negotiations are further ahead than they were a week ago, despite talks collapsing, and that a tentative agreement on a pension plan to be funded by the players as well as discussions on money issues are largely done, with the exception of transition payments.
"We think we're either done on the dollars or very close to it," he said.
Hopes had been high Tuesday when four new owners joined the negotiation process and met well into the night with players, leading some close to the situation to believe that an agreement was at hand.
But tempers flared during another marathon session Wednesday in which the sides exchange offers and move closer together.
A comprehensive proposal was handed over to the league by Fehr on Thursday, but the league rejected the offer because the union wanted to negotiate on three issues the NHL stated had to be accepted as is. It is then that talks fell apart, and the league pulled its offer off the table.
Fehr told a room packed with CAW members that the players' association and other labor groups share many traits when it comes to negotiating. He told the meeting that league negotiators must take into account concessions made by the players in their last collective agreement as well as NHL revenue increases in recent years.
Fehr said he wanted to be the bearer of good news in his talk to the assembled union members.
"I had hoped when this invitation came, and even earlier this week, to be in a position to tell you that we had successfully concluded an agreement and the lockout was over," he said. "I can't tell you when it's going to end. I can tell you that the only way it's going to end is to keep at the process and hope that eventually we're able to find a way through the thicket of issues that are there."
The NHL is in danger of losing its second full season in seven years. The lockout that forced the cancellation of the 2004-05 season marked the first time a North American professional sports league had a full campaign wiped out by a labor dispute. The agreement that was finally reached back expired this September, leading to a lockout being imposed again on Sept. 16.
Donald Fehr maintains NHL, players were close to deal - ESPN
The NHL Players' Association executive director repeated earlier remarks that an agreement appeared to be within reach Thursday night when the league rejected the union's latest proposal and rescinded its own.
"My comments from a couple of days ago stand on their own. I think we were very close," Fehr told reporters Saturday after addressing a Canadian Auto Workers council meeting.
Fehr's comments run contrary to NHL commissioner Gary Bettman, who said angrily Thursday he didn't think the owners and players were close to a deal and didn't know why Fehr claimed otherwise.
Fehr said he hasn't spoken directly with Bettman or deputy commissioner Bill Daly since talks crumbled, adding there has been some minor chatter between the sides, but that no future meetings have been scheduled. "So far, they have not indicated a willingness to continue discussions," Fehr said.
Daly told The Associated Press in an email Friday night that he didn't have any thoughts how to restart the process.
"I have no reason, nor any intention, of reaching out to the union right now," he wrote. "I have no new ideas. Maybe they do. We are happy to listen."
Fehr declined Saturday to comment directly on remarks by Bettman that questioned Fehr's motives for saying a deal was close, saying only he was disappointed with how things turned out. Fehr even urged those listening to his speech to deliver any suggestions on how to make a deal to him.
"I'm always disappointed when you're involved in a process and people want to call a halt to it," Fehr said. "The one thing we know for certain is that you can't make agreements if you're not talking about it."
The sides will have to renew negotiations soon if the remainder of the NHL season is to be saved. The lockout has resulted in the cancellation of 422 regular-season games through Dec. 14, along with the New Year's Day Winter Classic and the All-Star Game.
"I was in the room the whole time, every time," said Los Angeles Kings forward Kevin Westgarth, a member of the union negotiating team who played in a charity hockey game featuring 36 NHL players Saturday night in Windsor, Ontario. "We made a ton of progress. That was obvious. There's no argument that we're not closer than we were, but it's a shame things turned out the way they did.
"At this point, though, nothing surprises me. They get everybody's expectations up and then dash them. It's unfortunate. It's a shame we're not playing this game at the Joe or anywhere else in the NHL."
Edmonton Oilers captain Shawn Horcoff, who also took part in this week's negotiations in New York, agreed with Fehr and Westgarth that the sides definitely took steps toward a deal.
"We're closer," Horcoff said during the second intermission of Saturday night's game. "It wasn't like we're farther apart. We made progress toward a deal on the key issues, but we're just not there yet. Hopefully after a couple days we can get back at it.
"The worst thing would be to take time off and not meet. You got to get in there. Especially as someone being in there, some talks go good and some talks go bad. But you're figuring things out, trying new ideas, what works and what doesn't work and you're moving forward."
Bettman indicated the league wouldn't consider a schedule of fewer than 48 games -- the same length it had after the 1994-95 lockout -- which leaves roughly a month to reach an agreement.
But Fehr said negotiations are further ahead than they were a week ago, despite talks collapsing, and that a tentative agreement on a pension plan to be funded by the players as well as discussions on money issues are largely done, with the exception of transition payments.
"We think we're either done on the dollars or very close to it," he said.
Hopes had been high Tuesday when four new owners joined the negotiation process and met well into the night with players, leading some close to the situation to believe that an agreement was at hand.
But tempers flared during another marathon session Wednesday in which the sides exchange offers and move closer together.
A comprehensive proposal was handed over to the league by Fehr on Thursday, but the league rejected the offer because the union wanted to negotiate on three issues the NHL stated had to be accepted as is. It is then that talks fell apart, and the league pulled its offer off the table.
Fehr told a room packed with CAW members that the players' association and other labor groups share many traits when it comes to negotiating. He told the meeting that league negotiators must take into account concessions made by the players in their last collective agreement as well as NHL revenue increases in recent years.
Fehr said he wanted to be the bearer of good news in his talk to the assembled union members.
"I had hoped when this invitation came, and even earlier this week, to be in a position to tell you that we had successfully concluded an agreement and the lockout was over," he said. "I can't tell you when it's going to end. I can tell you that the only way it's going to end is to keep at the process and hope that eventually we're able to find a way through the thicket of issues that are there."
The NHL is in danger of losing its second full season in seven years. The lockout that forced the cancellation of the 2004-05 season marked the first time a North American professional sports league had a full campaign wiped out by a labor dispute. The agreement that was finally reached back expired this September, leading to a lockout being imposed again on Sept. 16.
Donald Fehr maintains NHL, players were close to deal - ESPN
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Thanks to a charity game, three NHL players — Kevin Westgarth, Shawn Horcoff and Jamal Mayers — got a chance to get more comfortable on the ice than they were earlier in the week.
They were playing hockey in a Canadian rink Saturday night, two days after being part of the union negotiating team in a New York hotel where labor talks with the league fell apart.
"I'm happy to be in a situation to do it, but I'd rather be on the ice," said Westgarth, a Los Angeles Kings forward. "That's where I want to be."
Westgarth was one of 36 locked-out players in an event at the WFCU Centre — less than 10 miles from Joe Louis Arena, home of the Detroit Red Wings — that raised money for charity and gave the idle pros an opportunity to do what they do best.
The game was sloppy and choppy early, understandably so because the lockout has lasted nearly three months, before some sharp passes and one-timers put their talent on display for about 4,500 fans.
"We all want to be playing real games," said Detroit Red Wings forward Dan Cleary, one of the players who organized the event.
"If we're not playing, we might as well do something good with our time, try to give back to the fans, to charities."
Cleary said a similar event is planned for Dec. 19 in Toronto.
With NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman insisting the two sides are still very far apart, there's a good chance more games will be cancelled soon.
The lockout has already wiped out all games through Dec. 14 along with the Winter Classic on New Year's Day at Michigan Stadium and the All-Star game on Jan. 27 in Ohio.
"We are running out of time," said Horcoff, an Edmonton Oilers forward. "I hope after a couple days of relaxing, cooler heads prevail and we get back it."
Mayers said the owners are the ones in control of when talks resume.
"It was the NHL that got up and left and pulled everything from the table," the Chicago Blackhawks forward said. "Certainly there will come a time in the next few days or the next week, they'll start to talk again. My hope is that the owners realize that we really are that close."
The two sides are apart on at least two key issues.
The NHL wants to limit player contracts to five years, seven if the player re-signs with a team, without a huge difference in what a player makes from year to year.
The union countered with an offer to make the maximum length of a deal for any player eight years.
Mayers tried to explain why the league's offer didn't work for the union.
"What would happen is, guys like Sidney Crosby would end up taking 20 percent of whatever the cap would be — for the entire term for five or seven years — and there would be a couple other guys on the team that would do that, then it would completely crush the middle- and lower-tier players," Mayers said.
"There would be no middle guy because there would be no money left. If Sid is making $12 [million US] and [Evgeni] Malkin is making that and then you have [Kris] Letang and [Marc-Andre] Fleury coming up, how would they fit everybody in?"
Another major obstacle to a deal is agreeing on how long the next collective bargaining agreement should last.
The NHL wants the new CBA to last for 10 years, with a mutual opt-out option after eight years. The union countered with an offer to make it an eight-year deal with an out after six years.
"I don't have to be a mathematician to figure out that there's a deal there to be made," Mayers said. "It's not a huge discrepancy."
Locked-out players, NHL hopeful talks will soon resume
They were playing hockey in a Canadian rink Saturday night, two days after being part of the union negotiating team in a New York hotel where labor talks with the league fell apart.
"I'm happy to be in a situation to do it, but I'd rather be on the ice," said Westgarth, a Los Angeles Kings forward. "That's where I want to be."
Westgarth was one of 36 locked-out players in an event at the WFCU Centre — less than 10 miles from Joe Louis Arena, home of the Detroit Red Wings — that raised money for charity and gave the idle pros an opportunity to do what they do best.
The game was sloppy and choppy early, understandably so because the lockout has lasted nearly three months, before some sharp passes and one-timers put their talent on display for about 4,500 fans.
"We all want to be playing real games," said Detroit Red Wings forward Dan Cleary, one of the players who organized the event.
"If we're not playing, we might as well do something good with our time, try to give back to the fans, to charities."
Cleary said a similar event is planned for Dec. 19 in Toronto.
With NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman insisting the two sides are still very far apart, there's a good chance more games will be cancelled soon.
The lockout has already wiped out all games through Dec. 14 along with the Winter Classic on New Year's Day at Michigan Stadium and the All-Star game on Jan. 27 in Ohio.
"We are running out of time," said Horcoff, an Edmonton Oilers forward. "I hope after a couple days of relaxing, cooler heads prevail and we get back it."
Mayers said the owners are the ones in control of when talks resume.
"It was the NHL that got up and left and pulled everything from the table," the Chicago Blackhawks forward said. "Certainly there will come a time in the next few days or the next week, they'll start to talk again. My hope is that the owners realize that we really are that close."
The two sides are apart on at least two key issues.
The NHL wants to limit player contracts to five years, seven if the player re-signs with a team, without a huge difference in what a player makes from year to year.
The union countered with an offer to make the maximum length of a deal for any player eight years.
Mayers tried to explain why the league's offer didn't work for the union.
"What would happen is, guys like Sidney Crosby would end up taking 20 percent of whatever the cap would be — for the entire term for five or seven years — and there would be a couple other guys on the team that would do that, then it would completely crush the middle- and lower-tier players," Mayers said.
"There would be no middle guy because there would be no money left. If Sid is making $12 [million US] and [Evgeni] Malkin is making that and then you have [Kris] Letang and [Marc-Andre] Fleury coming up, how would they fit everybody in?"
Another major obstacle to a deal is agreeing on how long the next collective bargaining agreement should last.
The NHL wants the new CBA to last for 10 years, with a mutual opt-out option after eight years. The union countered with an offer to make it an eight-year deal with an out after six years.
"I don't have to be a mathematician to figure out that there's a deal there to be made," Mayers said. "It's not a huge discrepancy."
Locked-out players, NHL hopeful talks will soon resume
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The NHL announced Monday that all games have been canceled through Dec. 30.
There already have been 422 regular-season games lost through Dec. 14 because of the lockout, and the latest cuts on Day 86 of the league shutdown claimed an additional 104. The NHL previously called off the New Year's Day Winter Classic, as well as the All-Star Game.
In all, the 526 lost games account for nearly 43 percent of the regular season that had been scheduled to begin Oct. 11. The league and the NHLPA remain in a stalemate in negotiations for a new collective bargaining agreement, but sources on both sides said late Monday night that talks are set to resume Wednesday. Neither side would divulge a location.
It's possible, for instance, the two sides would meet in a neutral location, away from Toronto, where the NHLPA is headquartered, and New York, where the league's main offices are located.
Daly and his counterpart with the NHLPA, Steve Fehr, met privately last month in an effort to jump-start negotiations.
The two sides met for three consecutive days last week, but to no avail. Multiple marathon sessions involving only players and owners -- no officials except for Daly and Fehr -- were aimed to inject some fresh voices into the negotiating room, but yielded little except for a dramatic breakdown of talks.
Although the league and union had appeared to be making significant progress -- both sides swapped proposals and appeared to make some substantive offers -- discussions went south Thursday night.
The league essentially pulled its most recent offer after the union failed to provide a "yes or no" answer on their three non-negotiable items: five-year contract term limits, a 10-year CBA and compliance on the transition rules.
Instead, the union tried countering with a proposal that was quickly rejected by the league. NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr, who portrayed the two sides as close to an agreement earlier Thursday evening, said the union was notified via voicemail message that their offer was "not acceptable."
NHL commissioner Gary Bettman disagreed that a deal was near, then angrily announced the league was rescinding every offer it had put on the table since the start of negotiations.
"I would say it was expected," New York Rangers goalie Martin Biron, the team's union representative, said about the lost games Monday in an email to the AP. "We continue to stand behind Don 100 percent and the work our negotiating committee is doing and working hard to get a deal done."
In an uncharacteristically emotional news conference Thursday, Bettman denied that there was any internal deadline for a deal to be brokered before the entire season would be canceled. However, he did say he did not envision playing any fewer than 48 games.
In 1995, the NHL played 48 games in a lockout-shortened season, which began Jan. 20.
NHL cancels all games through Dec. 30 - ESPN
There already have been 422 regular-season games lost through Dec. 14 because of the lockout, and the latest cuts on Day 86 of the league shutdown claimed an additional 104. The NHL previously called off the New Year's Day Winter Classic, as well as the All-Star Game.
In all, the 526 lost games account for nearly 43 percent of the regular season that had been scheduled to begin Oct. 11. The league and the NHLPA remain in a stalemate in negotiations for a new collective bargaining agreement, but sources on both sides said late Monday night that talks are set to resume Wednesday. Neither side would divulge a location.
It's possible, for instance, the two sides would meet in a neutral location, away from Toronto, where the NHLPA is headquartered, and New York, where the league's main offices are located.
Daly and his counterpart with the NHLPA, Steve Fehr, met privately last month in an effort to jump-start negotiations.
The two sides met for three consecutive days last week, but to no avail. Multiple marathon sessions involving only players and owners -- no officials except for Daly and Fehr -- were aimed to inject some fresh voices into the negotiating room, but yielded little except for a dramatic breakdown of talks.
Although the league and union had appeared to be making significant progress -- both sides swapped proposals and appeared to make some substantive offers -- discussions went south Thursday night.
The league essentially pulled its most recent offer after the union failed to provide a "yes or no" answer on their three non-negotiable items: five-year contract term limits, a 10-year CBA and compliance on the transition rules.
Instead, the union tried countering with a proposal that was quickly rejected by the league. NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr, who portrayed the two sides as close to an agreement earlier Thursday evening, said the union was notified via voicemail message that their offer was "not acceptable."
NHL commissioner Gary Bettman disagreed that a deal was near, then angrily announced the league was rescinding every offer it had put on the table since the start of negotiations.
"I would say it was expected," New York Rangers goalie Martin Biron, the team's union representative, said about the lost games Monday in an email to the AP. "We continue to stand behind Don 100 percent and the work our negotiating committee is doing and working hard to get a deal done."
In an uncharacteristically emotional news conference Thursday, Bettman denied that there was any internal deadline for a deal to be brokered before the entire season would be canceled. However, he did say he did not envision playing any fewer than 48 games.
In 1995, the NHL played 48 games in a lockout-shortened season, which began Jan. 20.
NHL cancels all games through Dec. 30 - ESPN
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The entertainment industry seems to give us only three things: sex, Justin Bieber and boxing.
Justin Bieber aside, don't producers know almost nobody cares anymore about boxing? But here we have Clifford Odets' period piece, Golden Boy, back on Broadway, and — achtung! — a musical of Rocky mounted in Germany.
Plus the usual same-old, same-old treatments are floating around. Eminem wants to make a boxing movie. Really. Worse, there are actual plans to have Sylvester Stallone fight Robert DeNiro in a boxing film. OMG — I am perfectly serious.
I say, please, can't we do sports movies for the sports fans who still exist and care? Yes, I know, as we say, that "in the full scheme of things" caring passionately about a mere sport is not important. And yes, sports fans are not necessarily the most discriminating. What is American parents' greatest nightmare? That they will spend $60,000 a year to send their son to Duke University, and then they will turn on the TV and see him half-naked, with his face painted blue, contorted, screaming at some poor guy from Wake Forest or Clemson shooting a free throw.
But most important, right now I wish the entertainment moguls would do a play or a film for the poor hockey fans, who don't have an NHL season because the owners have locked out the players and, as we know, there is no bipartisanship left in America today. Or, I guess, in Canada now, too.
So I feel very sorry for ice hockey fans even though they have a reputation for being the most vulgar fans of all. I mean, the NHL won't outlaw fights because hockey fans really, really like fights as much as incidental things like skating and pucks going into the net. Just as the most idiotic basketball fans don't all go to Duke, neither are all the ice hockey goons on the ice.
But I have found hockey fans to be especially loyal, and I conducted a thorough random survey among rabid hockey fans — namely my son — and he concurred with the common sentiment that hockey fans are less likely to flirt with other sports.
In other words, whereas, say, most basketball fans are relatively unfaithful, with a seasonal dalliance with football and baseball, hockey fans are more monogamous, sportswise, and don't care all that much for other team sports. And so they're really, really hurting right now.
Yes, OK, sports fans can be foolish and small, but what counts most is that they are emotionally invested in something.
So today, hockey fans are living their lives, going about their business, but their days are a little paler — with not quite so much mystery or excitement or anticipation. Those little joys are healthy for a lot of people. We can sympathize with fans when their sport is taken from them. Sure, it's just a game, but it does matter, even in the full scheme of things.
NHL Lockout Leaves Fans Out In The Cold : NPR
Justin Bieber aside, don't producers know almost nobody cares anymore about boxing? But here we have Clifford Odets' period piece, Golden Boy, back on Broadway, and — achtung! — a musical of Rocky mounted in Germany.
Plus the usual same-old, same-old treatments are floating around. Eminem wants to make a boxing movie. Really. Worse, there are actual plans to have Sylvester Stallone fight Robert DeNiro in a boxing film. OMG — I am perfectly serious.
I say, please, can't we do sports movies for the sports fans who still exist and care? Yes, I know, as we say, that "in the full scheme of things" caring passionately about a mere sport is not important. And yes, sports fans are not necessarily the most discriminating. What is American parents' greatest nightmare? That they will spend $60,000 a year to send their son to Duke University, and then they will turn on the TV and see him half-naked, with his face painted blue, contorted, screaming at some poor guy from Wake Forest or Clemson shooting a free throw.
But most important, right now I wish the entertainment moguls would do a play or a film for the poor hockey fans, who don't have an NHL season because the owners have locked out the players and, as we know, there is no bipartisanship left in America today. Or, I guess, in Canada now, too.
So I feel very sorry for ice hockey fans even though they have a reputation for being the most vulgar fans of all. I mean, the NHL won't outlaw fights because hockey fans really, really like fights as much as incidental things like skating and pucks going into the net. Just as the most idiotic basketball fans don't all go to Duke, neither are all the ice hockey goons on the ice.
But I have found hockey fans to be especially loyal, and I conducted a thorough random survey among rabid hockey fans — namely my son — and he concurred with the common sentiment that hockey fans are less likely to flirt with other sports.
In other words, whereas, say, most basketball fans are relatively unfaithful, with a seasonal dalliance with football and baseball, hockey fans are more monogamous, sportswise, and don't care all that much for other team sports. And so they're really, really hurting right now.
Yes, OK, sports fans can be foolish and small, but what counts most is that they are emotionally invested in something.
So today, hockey fans are living their lives, going about their business, but their days are a little paler — with not quite so much mystery or excitement or anticipation. Those little joys are healthy for a lot of people. We can sympathize with fans when their sport is taken from them. Sure, it's just a game, but it does matter, even in the full scheme of things.
NHL Lockout Leaves Fans Out In The Cold : NPR
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Alex Pietrangelo recently purchased his first home, in St. Louis, and added a new roommate, a dog named “Molly” he picked up at a local animal shelter. After beginning his career with the Blues living out of a suitcase, the defenseman is finally settling into his surroundings.
How long Pietrangelo can plan on his next contract keeping him here will depend on the NHL’s collective bargaining negotiations, which aren’t exactly going well.
Before the expiration of the old agreement Sept. 15, there was no limit on the length of a player’s contract. But one of the NHL’s sticking points in a new deal is the introduction of a five-year maximum length on individual contracts, with the option of seven years for players re-signing with their current teams.
The league is also seeking a maximum five percent variance in salary year to year, thus eliminating the “back-diving” contracts created by teams to circumvent the salary cap.
The union countered with an eight-year maximum term and 25 percent variance, but the league didn’t budge last week, with the NHL’s deputy commissioner, Bill Daly, calling the contract issues “the hill we will die on.”
“It could impact me if there is a limit on those,” Pietrangelo, 22, said. “There’s other factors, too ... how much it will vary year to year. It’s not only me, but the team is going to have to work around potential new situations in the CBA that will make it more difficult to sign someone to a long-term deal.”
Aware that the rules could change under a new agreement, several NHL clubs signed their own players to decade-long deals last offseason.
Pittsburgh re-upped star Sidney Crosby with a 12-year, $104 million contract, and L.A. kept Jonathan Quick in the fold with a 10-year, $58 million pact.
The Blues, even with one season left on Pietrangelo’s three-year entry-level contract, did attempt to re-sign their No. 1 defenseman.
With Pietrangelo due a base salary of $787,500 with bonuses that could lift him to $3.2 million in 2012-13, Blues general manager Doug Armstrong and Pietrangelo’s agent, Don Meehan, spoke last summer, but the talks were considered “informal.”
“I had meetings with Doug, and from the organization’s point of view, they conveyed every interest in saying to us that Alex is a very important part of the St. Louis Blues’ future,” Meehan said. “We had an open discussion in terms of what our collective thoughts were in terms of what the new rules would be. Of course, (the league and union) haven’t quite figured that out as of today’s date, so you can imagine when we spoke (with Armstrong) in the summertime, we were all unclear in terms of what the new rules were going to be.
“At that time, Doug indicated that as long as we knew their intention was to re-sign him that the organization felt comfortable in waiting until we had a new CBA. We in turn responded by saying that Alex was very happy in St. Louis, had been well-treated by the organization and from his perspective wanted to remain with St. Louis for a long time and be a part of their future.
“There’s really no fear from Alex’s end in terms of waiting to see what the new landscape will be. We’re not representing a player that was looking for an edge or predicting the future. That’s not what he’s all about. St. Louis recognizes his value, we know what it is, too. To compliment Doug, he approached this in nothing but a sincere good-faith gesture and we were happy with that. Alex was happy with that.”
Pietrangelo said that it was “a compliment” to be considered a priority and called it “exciting to be able to start” the process of signing a new contract, but he insisted that he’s in no rush.
“It got to a point where we thought we’d take a step back and see what the CBA brings,” Pietrangelo said. “It could work out in my favor, it may not, but we wanted to see some sort of clarity before we made a decision. You always want some sort of security. It’s definitely going to have to be the right situation for me in terms of the length of the deal and where the team is headed.
“But I definitely enjoy playing in St. Louis and I love the city. There’s definitely interest on both sides to figure something out for the long term ... there isn’t another team that I’d rather be a part of.”
If the lockout is lifted soon, Pietrangelo’s camp and the Blues could resume talks. If the season were canceled and the work stoppage continued into next summer, Pietrangelo could become a restricted free agent July 1.
“We’re happy to resume discussions once we all have greater clarity on what the new CBA is,” Meehan said. “There’s not going to be any rush from Alex’s point of view and the organization’s point of view. They’ve got a lot of things to tend to at the very beginning. I wouldn’t say that I would be expecting Doug to come at us real quick, nor would we be at him real quick. We’re all very comfortable with where Alex is, and what he is in the game, and timing isn’t of a concern to us.”
How long Pietrangelo can plan on his next contract keeping him here will depend on the NHL’s collective bargaining negotiations, which aren’t exactly going well.
Before the expiration of the old agreement Sept. 15, there was no limit on the length of a player’s contract. But one of the NHL’s sticking points in a new deal is the introduction of a five-year maximum length on individual contracts, with the option of seven years for players re-signing with their current teams.
The league is also seeking a maximum five percent variance in salary year to year, thus eliminating the “back-diving” contracts created by teams to circumvent the salary cap.
The union countered with an eight-year maximum term and 25 percent variance, but the league didn’t budge last week, with the NHL’s deputy commissioner, Bill Daly, calling the contract issues “the hill we will die on.”
“It could impact me if there is a limit on those,” Pietrangelo, 22, said. “There’s other factors, too ... how much it will vary year to year. It’s not only me, but the team is going to have to work around potential new situations in the CBA that will make it more difficult to sign someone to a long-term deal.”
Aware that the rules could change under a new agreement, several NHL clubs signed their own players to decade-long deals last offseason.
Pittsburgh re-upped star Sidney Crosby with a 12-year, $104 million contract, and L.A. kept Jonathan Quick in the fold with a 10-year, $58 million pact.
The Blues, even with one season left on Pietrangelo’s three-year entry-level contract, did attempt to re-sign their No. 1 defenseman.
With Pietrangelo due a base salary of $787,500 with bonuses that could lift him to $3.2 million in 2012-13, Blues general manager Doug Armstrong and Pietrangelo’s agent, Don Meehan, spoke last summer, but the talks were considered “informal.”
“I had meetings with Doug, and from the organization’s point of view, they conveyed every interest in saying to us that Alex is a very important part of the St. Louis Blues’ future,” Meehan said. “We had an open discussion in terms of what our collective thoughts were in terms of what the new rules would be. Of course, (the league and union) haven’t quite figured that out as of today’s date, so you can imagine when we spoke (with Armstrong) in the summertime, we were all unclear in terms of what the new rules were going to be.
“At that time, Doug indicated that as long as we knew their intention was to re-sign him that the organization felt comfortable in waiting until we had a new CBA. We in turn responded by saying that Alex was very happy in St. Louis, had been well-treated by the organization and from his perspective wanted to remain with St. Louis for a long time and be a part of their future.
“There’s really no fear from Alex’s end in terms of waiting to see what the new landscape will be. We’re not representing a player that was looking for an edge or predicting the future. That’s not what he’s all about. St. Louis recognizes his value, we know what it is, too. To compliment Doug, he approached this in nothing but a sincere good-faith gesture and we were happy with that. Alex was happy with that.”
Pietrangelo said that it was “a compliment” to be considered a priority and called it “exciting to be able to start” the process of signing a new contract, but he insisted that he’s in no rush.
“It got to a point where we thought we’d take a step back and see what the CBA brings,” Pietrangelo said. “It could work out in my favor, it may not, but we wanted to see some sort of clarity before we made a decision. You always want some sort of security. It’s definitely going to have to be the right situation for me in terms of the length of the deal and where the team is headed.
“But I definitely enjoy playing in St. Louis and I love the city. There’s definitely interest on both sides to figure something out for the long term ... there isn’t another team that I’d rather be a part of.”
If the lockout is lifted soon, Pietrangelo’s camp and the Blues could resume talks. If the season were canceled and the work stoppage continued into next summer, Pietrangelo could become a restricted free agent July 1.
“We’re happy to resume discussions once we all have greater clarity on what the new CBA is,” Meehan said. “There’s not going to be any rush from Alex’s point of view and the organization’s point of view. They’ve got a lot of things to tend to at the very beginning. I wouldn’t say that I would be expecting Doug to come at us real quick, nor would we be at him real quick. We’re all very comfortable with where Alex is, and what he is in the game, and timing isn’t of a concern to us.”
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As the misery of the stalemated NHL owner-player negotiations continues, at least we don't have to debate whether a shortened season would be viewed as legitimate.
History decided that for us. There is no asterisk associated with the 48-game 1994-95 NHL season. We say New Jersey Devils goalie Martin Brodeur has won three Stanley Cup championships. We don't say Brodeur won three, but one of them was in an abbreviated season.
If 48 games is the most games we can play this season, we will be all aboard. But that doesn't mean the NHL shouldn't be open to the possibility of spicing up the competition.
If owners and players finalize a new CBA any time soon, it shouldn't be enough to give fans business as usual. Since normal went out window a couple of months ago, why not simply embrace the uniqueness of the situation and strive to give fans the potential for the most entertaining postseason they have ever witnessed?
Fewer regular-season games, longer playoffs. That's the slogan that works for me. If I were commissioner, I would have two plans for an abbreviated season, and both would involve expanding the playoff pool by a round and adding more qualifiers.
If we play a 48-game season, my suggestion would be to increase the playoff pool from 16 to 24 teams. It would be a conference-only format, and the top four teams in each conference would draw a first-round bye, and then teams ranked fifth to 12th would play in a best-of-three play-in round. No. 5 would play No. 12. No. 6 would play No. 11, and so on.
The lower seed starts with a home game, and then the higher seed gets the final two games at home. You would have to do that to ensure that each team gets a home game while minimizing travel.
Once the play-in round is over, the teams are re-seeded No. 1 through No. 8 and the regular playoff format resumes. Can you imagine the intensity of those best-of-three play-in rounds? Historically, the most buzz about the NHL playoffs comes in the first round because there are fans from 16 teams still believing they can win the Stanley Cup. Wouldn't the buzz be greater if 24 teams were still alive in this one-time unique postseason format?
Altering the playoff format in this manner makes the regular season even more important. The competition to capture a first-round bye will be heated. With a compressed season likely, coaches will desperately covet that bye to give their teams time to rest while other teams are slugging it out to survive in the play-in round. The battle to land in No. 5 to No. 8 should be just as angst-ridden because home-ice advantage seems crucial in a best-of-three.
No one in the hockey world wants negotiations to be where they are at today, but now that we are here why not celebrate a chance to give the sport a different look for one season? Next season, we can go back to what we did last season.
Under this format, we could have the most eventful playoffs in NHL history. What we love about the playoffs is that players have to essentially run a gauntlet to win a Stanley Cup. This season we should make that gauntlet more challenging. This season, let's make it possible that a team might need to win five playoff rounds to win the Stanley Cup.
Presuming we are going to get this lockout ended at some point soon, let's make this all about what can be done to make it as entertaining as possible for fans.
Commissioner Gary Bettman has said he can't imagine playing fewer than 48 games. But I can. If it were up to me, I wouldn't view 48 games as the minimum required to have a legitimate season. I would be open-minded.
Personally, I would rather not see a compressed 48-game schedule with players exhausted from playing too many games in a week. I would rather see a 30-game schedule, with proper rest days built in and with the playoff format I just described.
Here's the other hook in my 30-game plan: Each team would play every other team in the league one time and then on the last night of the season, you would play a rivalry game. The Los Angeles Kings would play the Anaheim Ducks. The New York Islanders would meet the New York Rangers. The Florida teams would play each other. The Pittsburgh Penguins would battle the Philadelphia Flyers. You get the picture.
My plan would call for no conferences for this season only. The standings would list each team ranked No. 1 through No. 30 every day. The top 24 teams would make the playoffs, and the top eight seeds get byes to avoid the play-in round. The play-in rounds would be No. 9 vs. No. 24, and No. 10 vs. No. 23 and so on. We re-seed after the play-in rounds to set up our top 16 and proceed.
Instead of scoffing at this 30-game schedule as being illegitimate, I think fans would be talking about it for years. Every day, your team could rise or fall five or six places in the standings. It would be like the NFL, where every game seems huge. It's possible, under this format, that we could into the final two weeks of the regular with no teams knowing where it stood. This kind of schedule could turn a disastrous season into one of the most memorable in NHL history.
Obviously there are flaws with my plans, not the least of which is that the two sides aren't close to a settlement yet.
Plus, if this settled before the season is canceled, owners and players will want to play as many regular-season games as possible to maximize revenues. I also understand that reducing the number of regular-season games changes the Stanley Cup chase from a marathon to a sprint. I get it, but we are past that point.
It's going to be a different season no matter what the league does. So why not be bold and make the game more interesting for fans? It's not good enough to etch "Thank you fans" into center ice and pretend it is business as usual.
Fans deserve some creativity in the presentation of this year's games. After all, most of the hockey-related revenue that owners and players are arguing over comes out of their wal
History decided that for us. There is no asterisk associated with the 48-game 1994-95 NHL season. We say New Jersey Devils goalie Martin Brodeur has won three Stanley Cup championships. We don't say Brodeur won three, but one of them was in an abbreviated season.
If 48 games is the most games we can play this season, we will be all aboard. But that doesn't mean the NHL shouldn't be open to the possibility of spicing up the competition.
If owners and players finalize a new CBA any time soon, it shouldn't be enough to give fans business as usual. Since normal went out window a couple of months ago, why not simply embrace the uniqueness of the situation and strive to give fans the potential for the most entertaining postseason they have ever witnessed?
Fewer regular-season games, longer playoffs. That's the slogan that works for me. If I were commissioner, I would have two plans for an abbreviated season, and both would involve expanding the playoff pool by a round and adding more qualifiers.
If we play a 48-game season, my suggestion would be to increase the playoff pool from 16 to 24 teams. It would be a conference-only format, and the top four teams in each conference would draw a first-round bye, and then teams ranked fifth to 12th would play in a best-of-three play-in round. No. 5 would play No. 12. No. 6 would play No. 11, and so on.
The lower seed starts with a home game, and then the higher seed gets the final two games at home. You would have to do that to ensure that each team gets a home game while minimizing travel.
Once the play-in round is over, the teams are re-seeded No. 1 through No. 8 and the regular playoff format resumes. Can you imagine the intensity of those best-of-three play-in rounds? Historically, the most buzz about the NHL playoffs comes in the first round because there are fans from 16 teams still believing they can win the Stanley Cup. Wouldn't the buzz be greater if 24 teams were still alive in this one-time unique postseason format?
Altering the playoff format in this manner makes the regular season even more important. The competition to capture a first-round bye will be heated. With a compressed season likely, coaches will desperately covet that bye to give their teams time to rest while other teams are slugging it out to survive in the play-in round. The battle to land in No. 5 to No. 8 should be just as angst-ridden because home-ice advantage seems crucial in a best-of-three.
No one in the hockey world wants negotiations to be where they are at today, but now that we are here why not celebrate a chance to give the sport a different look for one season? Next season, we can go back to what we did last season.
Under this format, we could have the most eventful playoffs in NHL history. What we love about the playoffs is that players have to essentially run a gauntlet to win a Stanley Cup. This season we should make that gauntlet more challenging. This season, let's make it possible that a team might need to win five playoff rounds to win the Stanley Cup.
Presuming we are going to get this lockout ended at some point soon, let's make this all about what can be done to make it as entertaining as possible for fans.
Commissioner Gary Bettman has said he can't imagine playing fewer than 48 games. But I can. If it were up to me, I wouldn't view 48 games as the minimum required to have a legitimate season. I would be open-minded.
Personally, I would rather not see a compressed 48-game schedule with players exhausted from playing too many games in a week. I would rather see a 30-game schedule, with proper rest days built in and with the playoff format I just described.
Here's the other hook in my 30-game plan: Each team would play every other team in the league one time and then on the last night of the season, you would play a rivalry game. The Los Angeles Kings would play the Anaheim Ducks. The New York Islanders would meet the New York Rangers. The Florida teams would play each other. The Pittsburgh Penguins would battle the Philadelphia Flyers. You get the picture.
My plan would call for no conferences for this season only. The standings would list each team ranked No. 1 through No. 30 every day. The top 24 teams would make the playoffs, and the top eight seeds get byes to avoid the play-in round. The play-in rounds would be No. 9 vs. No. 24, and No. 10 vs. No. 23 and so on. We re-seed after the play-in rounds to set up our top 16 and proceed.
Instead of scoffing at this 30-game schedule as being illegitimate, I think fans would be talking about it for years. Every day, your team could rise or fall five or six places in the standings. It would be like the NFL, where every game seems huge. It's possible, under this format, that we could into the final two weeks of the regular with no teams knowing where it stood. This kind of schedule could turn a disastrous season into one of the most memorable in NHL history.
Obviously there are flaws with my plans, not the least of which is that the two sides aren't close to a settlement yet.
Plus, if this settled before the season is canceled, owners and players will want to play as many regular-season games as possible to maximize revenues. I also understand that reducing the number of regular-season games changes the Stanley Cup chase from a marathon to a sprint. I get it, but we are past that point.
It's going to be a different season no matter what the league does. So why not be bold and make the game more interesting for fans? It's not good enough to etch "Thank you fans" into center ice and pretend it is business as usual.
Fans deserve some creativity in the presentation of this year's games. After all, most of the hockey-related revenue that owners and players are arguing over comes out of their wal
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Their labor negotiations stalled, the N.H.L. and the players union traded legal jabs on Friday, moves that raised the chances that the entire season could be canceled. With no face-to-face meetings between the sides on Friday and the lockout three months old, the executive board of the N.H.L. Players’ Association voted to let its membership vote on whether to empower the board to disclaim interest. That move would be similar to decertifying the union because both moves could lead to challenges against the league on antitrust grounds.
The vote by the more than 700 players is expected to take place in the next few days. Even if they give the board the power to disclaim interest, there is no guarantee the board will use it.
Still, the N.H.L. took pre-emptive legal countermeasures when it filed a class-action complaint in federal court in New York seeking to confirm the legality of the lockout, which the players would challenge if they disclaimed interest. At the same time, the N.H.L. filed a charge with the National Labor Relations Board alleging that the union’s vote “constitutes bad-faith bargaining.”
In a statement, the union said: “The N.H.L. appears to be arguing that players should be stopped from even considering their right to decide whether or not to be represented by a union. We believe that their position is completely without merit.”
The legal maneuvering echoed similar steps taken by the N.F.L. and its union last year. The league ultimately came out on top in those cases, but the two sides settled before any games were lost. The stakes are much higher for the N.H.L. and the union because the league has canceled 42.8 percent of the schedule, including the All-Star Game and the Winter Classic. The legal wrangling could move the fight between the two sides into the courts, consuming what is left of the season.
“This shows in so many words that the negotiating has bogged down and the season is really in jeopardy,” said Mark Conrad, who teaches sports law at the Fordham University School of Business. “The N.H.L. is saying the fact that you are trying to disclaim interest is pre-emptive and we’re going to play chicken with you. It’s not good.”
A vote by the players to allow the board to disclaim interest would not preclude the league and the union from continuing to bargain. Despite the presence of federal mediators, the two sides have been unable to find solutions on significant issues, including salary caps, the length of player contracts and the length of the collective bargaining agreement.
The troubled talks led Fitch Ratings, a financial ratings agency, to issue a report on Friday that said the labor strife added to the financial instability of the league and its brand.
www-nytimes-com/2012/12/15/sports/hockey/nhl-and-union-trade-legal-barbs-raising-odds-of-canceled-season-html?_r=0
The vote by the more than 700 players is expected to take place in the next few days. Even if they give the board the power to disclaim interest, there is no guarantee the board will use it.
Still, the N.H.L. took pre-emptive legal countermeasures when it filed a class-action complaint in federal court in New York seeking to confirm the legality of the lockout, which the players would challenge if they disclaimed interest. At the same time, the N.H.L. filed a charge with the National Labor Relations Board alleging that the union’s vote “constitutes bad-faith bargaining.”
In a statement, the union said: “The N.H.L. appears to be arguing that players should be stopped from even considering their right to decide whether or not to be represented by a union. We believe that their position is completely without merit.”
The legal maneuvering echoed similar steps taken by the N.F.L. and its union last year. The league ultimately came out on top in those cases, but the two sides settled before any games were lost. The stakes are much higher for the N.H.L. and the union because the league has canceled 42.8 percent of the schedule, including the All-Star Game and the Winter Classic. The legal wrangling could move the fight between the two sides into the courts, consuming what is left of the season.
“This shows in so many words that the negotiating has bogged down and the season is really in jeopardy,” said Mark Conrad, who teaches sports law at the Fordham University School of Business. “The N.H.L. is saying the fact that you are trying to disclaim interest is pre-emptive and we’re going to play chicken with you. It’s not good.”
A vote by the players to allow the board to disclaim interest would not preclude the league and the union from continuing to bargain. Despite the presence of federal mediators, the two sides have been unable to find solutions on significant issues, including salary caps, the length of player contracts and the length of the collective bargaining agreement.
The troubled talks led Fitch Ratings, a financial ratings agency, to issue a report on Friday that said the labor strife added to the financial instability of the league and its brand.
www-nytimes-com/2012/12/15/sports/hockey/nhl-and-union-trade-legal-barbs-raising-odds-of-canceled-season-html?_r=0
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NHL players will continue the process of determining whether they will dissolve their union when they begin voting Sunday on whether to give the executive board the option to file a disclaimer of interest.
All members of the NHL Players' Association will participate in the voting electronically, ESPNNewYork-com reported Saturday. The process is expected to take up to five days.
A two-thirds majority is needed for passage. If that happens, the Players' Association would have until Jan. 2, 2013, to file the disclaimer.
According to ESPNNewYork-com, a disclaimer of interest is a quicker means of decertifying the union that would allow them to file an antitrust lawsuit against the league in court. However, such a move would be somewhat of a risk because the players would lose collective-bargaining rights and union protection.
The players' move is in response to the NHL filing a class-action complaint in New York Federal Court to uphold the lockout and an unfair labor practice charge with the National Labor Relations Board.
The NHL's complaint called the union's threat of a filing a disclaimer a ploy.
"The union has threatened to pursue this course not because it is defunct or otherwise incapable of representing NHL players for purposes of collective bargaining, nor because NHL players are dissatisfied with the representation they have been provided by the NHLPA," the NHL complaint said. "The NHLPA's threatened decertification or disclaimer is nothing more than an impermissible negotiating tactic, which the union incorrectly believes would enable it to commence an antitrust challenge to the NHL's lockout."
The union said the NHL's actions are "completely without merit."
"The NHL appears to be arguing that players should be stopped from even considering their right to decide whether or not to be represented by a union," the Players' Association said in a statement Friday. "We believe that their position is completely without merit."
The lockout has reached 91 days and forced the cancellation of games through Dec. 30.
NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly told ESPNNewYork-com that he hasn't been in touch with the Players' Association.
"Don't know what next step is," he said. "Time will tell."
No further talks are scheduled after the sides met with a federal mediator this week.
Report: NHL players to vote on dissolving union - Yahoo! Sports
All members of the NHL Players' Association will participate in the voting electronically, ESPNNewYork-com reported Saturday. The process is expected to take up to five days.
A two-thirds majority is needed for passage. If that happens, the Players' Association would have until Jan. 2, 2013, to file the disclaimer.
According to ESPNNewYork-com, a disclaimer of interest is a quicker means of decertifying the union that would allow them to file an antitrust lawsuit against the league in court. However, such a move would be somewhat of a risk because the players would lose collective-bargaining rights and union protection.
The players' move is in response to the NHL filing a class-action complaint in New York Federal Court to uphold the lockout and an unfair labor practice charge with the National Labor Relations Board.
The NHL's complaint called the union's threat of a filing a disclaimer a ploy.
"The union has threatened to pursue this course not because it is defunct or otherwise incapable of representing NHL players for purposes of collective bargaining, nor because NHL players are dissatisfied with the representation they have been provided by the NHLPA," the NHL complaint said. "The NHLPA's threatened decertification or disclaimer is nothing more than an impermissible negotiating tactic, which the union incorrectly believes would enable it to commence an antitrust challenge to the NHL's lockout."
The union said the NHL's actions are "completely without merit."
"The NHL appears to be arguing that players should be stopped from even considering their right to decide whether or not to be represented by a union," the Players' Association said in a statement Friday. "We believe that their position is completely without merit."
The lockout has reached 91 days and forced the cancellation of games through Dec. 30.
NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly told ESPNNewYork-com that he hasn't been in touch with the Players' Association.
"Don't know what next step is," he said. "Time will tell."
No further talks are scheduled after the sides met with a federal mediator this week.
Report: NHL players to vote on dissolving union - Yahoo! Sports
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Even so, he acknowledged Monday that the chances of him playing in Europe this winter have improved significantly of late as the NHL lockout continues.
And while he hasn't booked a flight across the Atlantic Ocean just yet, Crosby made it clear that playing there has moved beyond the theoretical stage.
Well beyond it, actually.
"You know what? It's a lot more possible right now," Crosby said after a player-organized workout at Southpointe. "I probably hadn't thought about it quite as much as I have the past few days.
"It's definitely been something ... with the way things are looking now, it's not looking too good."
Crosby made those observations a few hours before news broke that federal mediators will get involved in the dispute between the NHL and the NHL Players' Association. The mediation is nonbinding.
The lockout has shut down the league since mid-September. There have been no negotiations in nearly a week, although there are indications that the parties and mediators will get together Wednesday.
Games through Dec. 14 have been canceled, and the league acknowledged weeks ago that it will not be possible to play an 82-game schedule in 2012-13.
"Hopefully, we can still get a good chunk of games in, if we figure something out," Crosby said.
That might happen, but it's entirely possible that even if the NHL does get back in business at some point this winter, it won't happen until after Crosby has spent some time in Europe.
He said that his agent, Pat Brisson, has spoken with multiple teams in Russia -- where teammate Evgeni Malkin is playing for his hometown club, Metallurg Magnitogorsk -- and Switzerland, and did not rule out discussions with teams in other countries.
Brisson could not be reached for comment, but this fall projected that insuring Crosby's contracts with the Penguins -- before the lockout, they were scheduled to pay him $111.9 million over 13 seasons -- could cost between $200,000 and $400,000, a fee that likely would be borne by the European club that lands him.
Presumably, that insurance would be pro-rated to reflect Crosby playing less than a full season.
"I don't know, specifically, if I've gotten to that point where I'm looking at [particular] teams, but I think I'm more or less thinking that playing is becoming a little more and more important here, the longer we go," Crosby said. "Especially in my case, where I've missed so much hockey in the last little bit."
A concussion limited him to 41 games in 2010-11 and the lingering effects of that, along with a neck injury, forced him from the lineup for all but 22 games last season.
While it's conceivable that the fresh eyes and ears of the mediators will help the negotiators to develop and maintain traction, the talks to this point have been sporadic and unproductive. That, Crosby suggested, has compounded the exasperation players feel about being idled.
"I think a lot of guys are frustrated with ... the not talking," he said. "We understand the business side, that there are negotiations and proposals going back and forth, that kind of thing.
"But I think the whole process is frustrating. If we really want to get something done, I feel like we have to be there every single day, no matter what.
"Whether or not that's going to happen, I don't know, but the process is probably more frustrating than anything."
Crosby has steadfastly supported the NHLPA before and during the lockout, but defended the right of players such as defenseman Romas Hamrlik and goaltender Michal Neuvirth, both of Washington, to express opinions critical of the union.
"They have a right to say what they think," Crosby said. "To be honest, to get 750 guys to have the exact same outlook on every single detail is pretty tough. Pretty much impossible."
Whether the same will be true of forging a new CBA in time to salvage at least a portion of the 2012-13 season could become more evident over the next few weeks.
That means Crosby and hundreds of colleagues will continue to monitor every twist and wrinkle in the negotiations, something few likely anticipated when choosing their line of work.
"This whole process, it wears on you a little bit," Crosby said. "This isn't what we grew up thinking hockey is about.
"It's unfortunate it's come to this point, but you need to get that enjoyment back, the fun side of the game. And that's being out there playing."
Even if, in his case, it means crossing an ocean sometime soon to do it.
Read more: NHL lockout: Crosby closer to playing overseas - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette