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NHL owners and players continued to try to find a solution to the 53-day-old lockout by agreeing to talk on Thursday after Wednesday's 5½-hour session.
Wednesday was supposed to be a critical day as the two sides planned to discuss the owners' "make-whole" provision pertaining to players' existing contracts. But the early part of the talks concentrated on revenue sharing among teams.
The NHL Players' Association's approach from the beginning has been to increase revenue sharing as a means to help financially stressed teams. The NHL distributed $150 million in revenue sharing last season and has offered to increase that to $200 million. Players had originally sought $240 million.
There also was a discussion on honoring existing contracts before talks broke up at 9 p.m. ET.
The league said it had no comment and NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr merely said he was looking forward to the next day's talks. The location of talks also remained a secret, continuing a media blackout in hopes of inspiring more-focused negotiations.
The NHL Players' Association did say that eight players were taking part: David Backes, Chris Campoli, Mathieu Darche, Ron Hainsey, Milan Lucic, Manny Malhotra, Shawn Thornton and Kevin Westgarth. Some other players, including Pittsburgh Penguins center Sidney Crosby, returned home because of the approach of the nor'easter that struck New York.
The major issue in the lockout is owners' desire to reduce the players' share of revenue from 57% to 50%. Players have made offers in that direction, but are balking against a sharp drop that would require them to give back salary through escrow next season.
Their position is that they signed their individual contracts in good faith and don't want to receive less than what their contracts say they should earn.
Owners did offer a "make-whole" provision to protect the salary value, but their original plan called for that money to come out of players' future share and not the owners' share. To re-start negotiations, owners have now agreed to discuss the make-whole issue.
To what extent owners are willing to fund that "make whole" probably will say much about how this week's talks will go.
If owners can come up with a creative, owner-funded provision to protect player salaries for a couple of seasons until revenue growth protects them, then it will be much easier for players to agree to a 50-50 split.
NHL and players association agree to keep talking
Wednesday was supposed to be a critical day as the two sides planned to discuss the owners' "make-whole" provision pertaining to players' existing contracts. But the early part of the talks concentrated on revenue sharing among teams.
The NHL Players' Association's approach from the beginning has been to increase revenue sharing as a means to help financially stressed teams. The NHL distributed $150 million in revenue sharing last season and has offered to increase that to $200 million. Players had originally sought $240 million.
There also was a discussion on honoring existing contracts before talks broke up at 9 p.m. ET.
The league said it had no comment and NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr merely said he was looking forward to the next day's talks. The location of talks also remained a secret, continuing a media blackout in hopes of inspiring more-focused negotiations.
The NHL Players' Association did say that eight players were taking part: David Backes, Chris Campoli, Mathieu Darche, Ron Hainsey, Milan Lucic, Manny Malhotra, Shawn Thornton and Kevin Westgarth. Some other players, including Pittsburgh Penguins center Sidney Crosby, returned home because of the approach of the nor'easter that struck New York.
The major issue in the lockout is owners' desire to reduce the players' share of revenue from 57% to 50%. Players have made offers in that direction, but are balking against a sharp drop that would require them to give back salary through escrow next season.
Their position is that they signed their individual contracts in good faith and don't want to receive less than what their contracts say they should earn.
Owners did offer a "make-whole" provision to protect the salary value, but their original plan called for that money to come out of players' future share and not the owners' share. To re-start negotiations, owners have now agreed to discuss the make-whole issue.
To what extent owners are willing to fund that "make whole" probably will say much about how this week's talks will go.
If owners can come up with a creative, owner-funded provision to protect player salaries for a couple of seasons until revenue growth protects them, then it will be much easier for players to agree to a 50-50 split.
NHL and players association agree to keep talking
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2006/12/07
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The N.H.L. Players’ Association heard responses from the league on a new proposal centering on two key issues Thursday, as bargaining intensified in a third straight day of talks at what had been an unspecified location in Manhattan. That location turned out to be the offices of Proskauer Rose, the Midtown law firm that has advised the N.H.L. on its strategy of imposing lockouts in labor disputes in 1994, 2004 and earlier this year.
“How did you find us?” Commissioner Gary Bettman asked a crowd of reporters gathered Thursday night outside the firm’s offices on 41st Street and Eighth Avenue. At the league’s request, the union had agreed to keep the location of this week’s talks secret in an effort to focus on the bargaining without the supposed distraction of managing public relations.
Both Bettman and Donald Fehr, the union’s executive director, said talks would continue Friday, signaling continued progress on Day 54 of the lockout.
Fehr declined to discuss the negotiations but sounded a note of highly guarded optimism.
“It’s better to be meeting and talking than not,” he said.
Bettman expressed a similar sentiment.
“We have work to do, and we’re working hard,” he said. “Hopefully, it leads us to the right place.”
Officials from both sides refused to characterize the league’s response to the new union proposal, and union officials gave no details on the plan.
But union officials confirmed that their proposal involved revenue sharing among clubs and a make-whole provision, a mechanism that would allow existing contracts to be honored under a lower salary cap. The union has said it will accept a 50-50 split of the league’s overall revenue, down from a 57-43 split under the collective bargaining agreement that expired Sept. 15.
The make-whole issue is seen as the biggest obstacle to a settlement. The union wants existing contracts honored in full, while in past proposals the league has sought to defer payments on such contracts.
Thursday’s session lasted from 1 to 6:15 p.m., after bargaining sessions totaling more than 13 hours on Tuesday and Wednesday.
Eight players were present for Thursday’s session: David Backes, Chris Campoli, Mathieu Darche, Ron Hainsey, Milan Lucic, Manny Malhotra, Shawn Thornton and Kevin Westgarth. Sidney Crosby, who had been present for Tuesday’s talks, returned to Pittsburgh after that day’s session ahead of the snowstorm that struck New York on Wednesday.
At least one owner, Jeremy Jacobs of the Bruins, was present for Thursday’s talks. Jacobs is the chairman of the league’s board of governors.
Bettman said the N.H.L. chose to keep the location of the talks secret “because we have work to do, and my hope is that we can achieve the goal of getting a long-term, fair agreement in place as quickly as possible so we can play hockey.”
He added, “Every day that passes I think is critical for the game and for our fans.”
The entire N.H.L. schedule for October and November has been canceled, along with the Jan. 1 Winter Classic — a total of 327 games, or 26.5 percent of the season. Bettman’s tone was far more measured Thursday than it was the last time he spoke publicly. On Oct. 18 he dismissed three proposals minutes after the union offered them, saying, “We were done in an hour today because there was really nothing there.”
Fehr said the two sides might keep negotiating into the weekend. “If there’s something to talk about, then I expect we will be,” he said.
N.H.L. Labor Talks Proceeding With Optimism - NYTimes-com
“How did you find us?” Commissioner Gary Bettman asked a crowd of reporters gathered Thursday night outside the firm’s offices on 41st Street and Eighth Avenue. At the league’s request, the union had agreed to keep the location of this week’s talks secret in an effort to focus on the bargaining without the supposed distraction of managing public relations.
Both Bettman and Donald Fehr, the union’s executive director, said talks would continue Friday, signaling continued progress on Day 54 of the lockout.
Fehr declined to discuss the negotiations but sounded a note of highly guarded optimism.
“It’s better to be meeting and talking than not,” he said.
Bettman expressed a similar sentiment.
“We have work to do, and we’re working hard,” he said. “Hopefully, it leads us to the right place.”
Officials from both sides refused to characterize the league’s response to the new union proposal, and union officials gave no details on the plan.
But union officials confirmed that their proposal involved revenue sharing among clubs and a make-whole provision, a mechanism that would allow existing contracts to be honored under a lower salary cap. The union has said it will accept a 50-50 split of the league’s overall revenue, down from a 57-43 split under the collective bargaining agreement that expired Sept. 15.
The make-whole issue is seen as the biggest obstacle to a settlement. The union wants existing contracts honored in full, while in past proposals the league has sought to defer payments on such contracts.
Thursday’s session lasted from 1 to 6:15 p.m., after bargaining sessions totaling more than 13 hours on Tuesday and Wednesday.
Eight players were present for Thursday’s session: David Backes, Chris Campoli, Mathieu Darche, Ron Hainsey, Milan Lucic, Manny Malhotra, Shawn Thornton and Kevin Westgarth. Sidney Crosby, who had been present for Tuesday’s talks, returned to Pittsburgh after that day’s session ahead of the snowstorm that struck New York on Wednesday.
At least one owner, Jeremy Jacobs of the Bruins, was present for Thursday’s talks. Jacobs is the chairman of the league’s board of governors.
Bettman said the N.H.L. chose to keep the location of the talks secret “because we have work to do, and my hope is that we can achieve the goal of getting a long-term, fair agreement in place as quickly as possible so we can play hockey.”
He added, “Every day that passes I think is critical for the game and for our fans.”
The entire N.H.L. schedule for October and November has been canceled, along with the Jan. 1 Winter Classic — a total of 327 games, or 26.5 percent of the season. Bettman’s tone was far more measured Thursday than it was the last time he spoke publicly. On Oct. 18 he dismissed three proposals minutes after the union offered them, saying, “We were done in an hour today because there was really nothing there.”
Fehr said the two sides might keep negotiating into the weekend. “If there’s something to talk about, then I expect we will be,” he said.
N.H.L. Labor Talks Proceeding With Optimism - NYTimes-com
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Canadians may be depressed about the ongoing National Hockey League (NHL) lockout that has darkened arenas across the hockey mad nation but they are not crying in their beer about it, at least not Molson Coors.
As the labor war between billionaire owners and millionaire players drags on trouble appears to be brewing for the NHL with fans, sponsors, television networks and those who earn a living on the fringes of the sport angered over the prospects of losing a second season in eight years.
An Angus Reid poll released on Friday found that more Canadians blame owners for the lockout now in its 55th day and 31 percent of hockey fans polled have switched to watching the National Football League (NFL).
The tedious negotiation dance has become all too familiar for weary North American sports fans, who have been dragged a through Conga line of labor disputes by the NFL, NFL officials and the National Basketball Association in the past 15 months. Now they must watch NHL owners and players wrestle over a $3.3 billion pie.
Some of that frustration surfaced like the froth on a foamy beer on Wednesday, when Molson Coors chief executive Peter Swinburn, who signed a reported seven-year $375 million sponsorship deal with the NHL, suggested the brewing giant could seek compensation for a dramatic slump in sales in Canada.
In the first month of the fourth quarter, Molson Coors sales to retailers fell 5.1 percent in Canada, hurt by industry weakness and the NHL lockout.
"NHL is a major property for us," said Molson vice-president Dave Dunnewald. "Hockey generates a lot of beer occasions in Canada, whether it's in bars, in home, or in the venues.
"And it's a really important part of how we activate behind our power brands, Coors Light and Canadian.
"So we're obviously working to replace the hockey programming but hockey would be the premier property and on top, we lose the direct volume in the hockey venues that are ours."
Most sponsorship deals come with "make good" clauses shielding companies from calamities such as lockouts and Molson is certain to receive some relief in the form of additional marketing and advertising opportunities if the labor strife drags on but compensation is unlikely.
According to business and marketing experts, Swinburn's threat should be viewed as more of a warning shot across the NHL's bow.
"It's jawboning or whatever you want to call it," Bill Sutton, professor at University of Central Florida's DeVos sports business program and former vice-president of marketing at NBA, told Reuters. "You can check with any lawyer, I can't imagine they have any claim for the loss of any beer sales but what he is saying is, 'Hey guys, I'm going to have to put my money somewhere else or take it out of the market, if you're not back skating pretty soon, you are not going to see that money this year'."
SPONSORS CONCERNED
NHL sponsors have not been shy about expressing their concerns when it comes to the operation of the league.
Last year commissioner Gary Bettman faced the threat of a sponsors' revolt over concern of escalating violence in the game following a devastating hit by Boston Bruins Zdeno Chara on Montreal Canadiens Max Pacioretty that left Air Canada threatening to pull its sponsorship.
"They (sponsors) have some influence," Neal Pilson, head of Pilson Communications and former president of CBS Sports told Reuters. "They have a lot of stake.
"This is the fourth quarter and it would be a big quarter for whatever sponsor because this is the platform for your activation into the holiday season.
"You set up all these campaigns to activate in the holiday season and all of sudden the platform you we're going to use isn't there."
As the fans and some sponsors grumble the league's broadcasting partners have been mostly silent, stoically counting the hours of lost programming and advertising revenues.
A year ago the NHL was crowing about a new $2 billion rights with NBC that was to roll out a lineup of games this season highlighted by the money-spinning New Year's Day Winter Classic, that has already been wiped from the schedule by the labor dispute.
The U.S. rights holder to the 2014 Winter Games, NBC is watching the negotiations with double interest to see if the NHL will renew its Olympic commitment as part of the new CBA and allow players to compete in Sochi.
In Canada, where hockey is the king of all sports properties, finding ways to fill hundreds and hundreds of hours of programming will not be as easy.
The country's all sports networks have tried to satisfy the country's hunger for hockey by plugging in minor and junior games and tournaments from around the world including Switzerland's Spengler Cup and the world junior championships.
The NHL has been a ratings grabber for the Canadian Broadcasting Corp. bringing in a huge chunk of revenue for Canada's national broadcaster, which has resorted to filling its iconic Hockey Night in Canada time slot on Saturday with replays of old games.
"It's not optimal for us," Jeffrey Orridge, executive director of sports properties at CBC, told Reuters. "There is no substitute for live hockey and the advertisers that buy spots at a certain rate card because of the audience it generates.
"Hockey Night in Canada is an institution, it's not just about putting on hockey games it's about preserving a cultural institution."
Trouble brewing for NHL as lockout drags on - NHL- NBC Sports
As the labor war between billionaire owners and millionaire players drags on trouble appears to be brewing for the NHL with fans, sponsors, television networks and those who earn a living on the fringes of the sport angered over the prospects of losing a second season in eight years.
An Angus Reid poll released on Friday found that more Canadians blame owners for the lockout now in its 55th day and 31 percent of hockey fans polled have switched to watching the National Football League (NFL).
The tedious negotiation dance has become all too familiar for weary North American sports fans, who have been dragged a through Conga line of labor disputes by the NFL, NFL officials and the National Basketball Association in the past 15 months. Now they must watch NHL owners and players wrestle over a $3.3 billion pie.
Some of that frustration surfaced like the froth on a foamy beer on Wednesday, when Molson Coors chief executive Peter Swinburn, who signed a reported seven-year $375 million sponsorship deal with the NHL, suggested the brewing giant could seek compensation for a dramatic slump in sales in Canada.
In the first month of the fourth quarter, Molson Coors sales to retailers fell 5.1 percent in Canada, hurt by industry weakness and the NHL lockout.
"NHL is a major property for us," said Molson vice-president Dave Dunnewald. "Hockey generates a lot of beer occasions in Canada, whether it's in bars, in home, or in the venues.
"And it's a really important part of how we activate behind our power brands, Coors Light and Canadian.
"So we're obviously working to replace the hockey programming but hockey would be the premier property and on top, we lose the direct volume in the hockey venues that are ours."
Most sponsorship deals come with "make good" clauses shielding companies from calamities such as lockouts and Molson is certain to receive some relief in the form of additional marketing and advertising opportunities if the labor strife drags on but compensation is unlikely.
According to business and marketing experts, Swinburn's threat should be viewed as more of a warning shot across the NHL's bow.
"It's jawboning or whatever you want to call it," Bill Sutton, professor at University of Central Florida's DeVos sports business program and former vice-president of marketing at NBA, told Reuters. "You can check with any lawyer, I can't imagine they have any claim for the loss of any beer sales but what he is saying is, 'Hey guys, I'm going to have to put my money somewhere else or take it out of the market, if you're not back skating pretty soon, you are not going to see that money this year'."
SPONSORS CONCERNED
NHL sponsors have not been shy about expressing their concerns when it comes to the operation of the league.
Last year commissioner Gary Bettman faced the threat of a sponsors' revolt over concern of escalating violence in the game following a devastating hit by Boston Bruins Zdeno Chara on Montreal Canadiens Max Pacioretty that left Air Canada threatening to pull its sponsorship.
"They (sponsors) have some influence," Neal Pilson, head of Pilson Communications and former president of CBS Sports told Reuters. "They have a lot of stake.
"This is the fourth quarter and it would be a big quarter for whatever sponsor because this is the platform for your activation into the holiday season.
"You set up all these campaigns to activate in the holiday season and all of sudden the platform you we're going to use isn't there."
As the fans and some sponsors grumble the league's broadcasting partners have been mostly silent, stoically counting the hours of lost programming and advertising revenues.
A year ago the NHL was crowing about a new $2 billion rights with NBC that was to roll out a lineup of games this season highlighted by the money-spinning New Year's Day Winter Classic, that has already been wiped from the schedule by the labor dispute.
The U.S. rights holder to the 2014 Winter Games, NBC is watching the negotiations with double interest to see if the NHL will renew its Olympic commitment as part of the new CBA and allow players to compete in Sochi.
In Canada, where hockey is the king of all sports properties, finding ways to fill hundreds and hundreds of hours of programming will not be as easy.
The country's all sports networks have tried to satisfy the country's hunger for hockey by plugging in minor and junior games and tournaments from around the world including Switzerland's Spengler Cup and the world junior championships.
The NHL has been a ratings grabber for the Canadian Broadcasting Corp. bringing in a huge chunk of revenue for Canada's national broadcaster, which has resorted to filling its iconic Hockey Night in Canada time slot on Saturday with replays of old games.
"It's not optimal for us," Jeffrey Orridge, executive director of sports properties at CBC, told Reuters. "There is no substitute for live hockey and the advertisers that buy spots at a certain rate card because of the audience it generates.
"Hockey Night in Canada is an institution, it's not just about putting on hockey games it's about preserving a cultural institution."
Trouble brewing for NHL as lockout drags on - NHL- NBC Sports
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NHL labor talks took a break Saturday – an old-fashioned lunch break.
Instead of returning to the negotiating table for a fifth straight day, representatives from the NHL and the players’ association stayed in touch during the morning and then got together for an informal lunch meeting in the afternoon.
NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly and union special counsel Steve Fehr made plans to talk either Saturday night or this morning to set up the next round of negotiations.
Negotiations hit a rough spot Friday and talks were put on hold Saturday – the 56th day of the lockout that has delayed the start of the season and already forced it to be shortened. Talks ended Friday night a few hours into a bargaining session on the core economic differences that separate the sides and threaten the season completely.
Following those discussions, union executive director Donald Fehr held a conference call with the executive board and players on the negotiating committee. The players’ association continued internal discussions Saturday before meeting with the league.
It became clear Friday night that the gap between the sides had grown wider. Whether negotiations took a step backward remains to be seen.
The union was under the impression the numbers floated by each side indicated they were nearer to an agreement with the league, but NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman disagreed.
“Gary made a comment (Thursday) that there is still a lot of work to do. I think, given (Friday’s) session, there is still a lot of work to do,” Donald Fehr said. “We looked at some of the numbers on the various proposals and we thought we were much closer together on the structure of a deal than the suggestions were.
“They came back to us and said, ‘No, we are very, very far apart on the structure of the deal.’ ”
The lockout has already caused the league to call off 327 regular-season games, including the New Year’s Day Winter Classic in Michigan.
NHL sides take lunch break from negotiations | The Journal Gazette
Instead of returning to the negotiating table for a fifth straight day, representatives from the NHL and the players’ association stayed in touch during the morning and then got together for an informal lunch meeting in the afternoon.
NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly and union special counsel Steve Fehr made plans to talk either Saturday night or this morning to set up the next round of negotiations.
Negotiations hit a rough spot Friday and talks were put on hold Saturday – the 56th day of the lockout that has delayed the start of the season and already forced it to be shortened. Talks ended Friday night a few hours into a bargaining session on the core economic differences that separate the sides and threaten the season completely.
Following those discussions, union executive director Donald Fehr held a conference call with the executive board and players on the negotiating committee. The players’ association continued internal discussions Saturday before meeting with the league.
It became clear Friday night that the gap between the sides had grown wider. Whether negotiations took a step backward remains to be seen.
The union was under the impression the numbers floated by each side indicated they were nearer to an agreement with the league, but NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman disagreed.
“Gary made a comment (Thursday) that there is still a lot of work to do. I think, given (Friday’s) session, there is still a lot of work to do,” Donald Fehr said. “We looked at some of the numbers on the various proposals and we thought we were much closer together on the structure of a deal than the suggestions were.
“They came back to us and said, ‘No, we are very, very far apart on the structure of the deal.’ ”
The lockout has already caused the league to call off 327 regular-season games, including the New Year’s Day Winter Classic in Michigan.
NHL sides take lunch break from negotiations | The Journal Gazette
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NHL owners and players are back at the bargaining table after a one-day break.
Negotiations began Sunday afternoon at the NHL office in Manhattan. Talks took place for four straight days earlier this week before heated discussions ended the run Friday night.
The sides were in contact Saturday, leading to an informal lunch in the afternoon. The decision to formally meet again came Sunday morning.
A few hours into Friday’s session, negotiations soured over the core economic differences that separate the sides and threaten the season completely.
The lockout is in its 57th day and has already caused the NHL to call off 327 regular-season games, including the New Year’s Day Winter Classic. A lockout wiped out the entire 2004-05 season.
Negotiations began Sunday afternoon at the NHL office in Manhattan. Talks took place for four straight days earlier this week before heated discussions ended the run Friday night.
The sides were in contact Saturday, leading to an informal lunch in the afternoon. The decision to formally meet again came Sunday morning.
A few hours into Friday’s session, negotiations soured over the core economic differences that separate the sides and threaten the season completely.
The lockout is in its 57th day and has already caused the NHL to call off 327 regular-season games, including the New Year’s Day Winter Classic. A lockout wiped out the entire 2004-05 season.
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A new NHL labour deal might not be as far off as it seems.
Steve Fehr, special counsel to the NHL Players' Association, believes the collective bargaining agreement can be wrapped up in a hurry once the sides make a breakthrough in negotiations.
"One thing (deputy commissioner) Bill Daly and I agree upon is that when the moment is right the deal could be done very quickly," Fehr said Monday during a panel discussion at the PrimeTime Sports Management Conference. "One day, three days or whatever."
Asked later if he agreed with that assertion, Daly replied: "I hope he's right."
Representatives from the NHL and NHLPA have met seven of the last nine days, but no future talks are planned. Fehr told the panel that three issues remain to be solved: the split of money, player contract rights and who pays for the damage caused by the lockout.
The contract issue in particular has flared up recently, with Pittsburgh Penguins captain Sidney Crosby sounding off on that topic to reporters on Monday. The NHL has proposed changes to entry-level deals, arbitration, free agency and contract limits.
"The question I'd ask is why would we change that?" said Crosby. "I think we all think it's the most competitive league in the world so why would you go and change that -- the way contracts go and the way teams can operate?"
Fehr and Daly discussed the player rights issue during a meeting on Sunday afternoon, and the union leader doesn't believe it will ultimately keep them from striking a deal.
"We're not making any real progress in those areas," said Fehr. "It's kind of hard to believe anyone's going to drive the industry bus off a cliff over things like that, but I've seen things before that surprise me."
On a more positive note, he indicated that the sides were "fairly close" to an agreement on revenue sharing. It's believed the NHL is willing to bump the annual pot to $220 million from its current position of $140 million.
The NHL lockout has been ongoing since mid-September and forced the cancellation of all regular-season games through Nov. 30. It is believed a deal would need to be struck early next week for a shortened season to begin on Dec. 1.
On Monday, Fehr was joined on the labour issues panel by Toronto Maple Leafs GM Brian Burke, New York Giants assistant GM Kevin Abrams and Toronto Raptors vice-president Ed Stefanski.
Most of the talk centred on the NHL negotiations, which kept Burke uncharacteristically quiet because team officials can be fined up to $1 million for speaking about the CBA. At one point, he quipped: "This is painful."
Fehr also spoke of his experiences with the Major League Baseball Players' Association, where he earned the nickname "Designated Optimist" during the 2002 talks, and observed that lockouts seem to have become unavoidable in sports with a salary cap.
"It's almost as if in the capped sports it's become a rewriting of the Hippocratic Oath," said Fehr. "Instead of first 'do no harm,' it's first lockout and then we'll see what happens. I guess they've decided they can live with how the fans feel about it and they're not going to by shy about doing it."
He also hinted that NHL owners might not be taking the union seriously during these negotiations.
"It does remind me certainly of some disputes long ago in baseball," said Fehr. "In some ways, it reminds me of baseball in the 80's and maybe the early 90's before the baseball owners, in our view, accepted that the union was here to stay and wanted to make a deal with the union as opposed to fighting with the union.
"We'll see."
Read more: Deal can be made quickly once breakthrough happens in NHL talks, Fehr says
Steve Fehr, special counsel to the NHL Players' Association, believes the collective bargaining agreement can be wrapped up in a hurry once the sides make a breakthrough in negotiations.
"One thing (deputy commissioner) Bill Daly and I agree upon is that when the moment is right the deal could be done very quickly," Fehr said Monday during a panel discussion at the PrimeTime Sports Management Conference. "One day, three days or whatever."
Asked later if he agreed with that assertion, Daly replied: "I hope he's right."
Representatives from the NHL and NHLPA have met seven of the last nine days, but no future talks are planned. Fehr told the panel that three issues remain to be solved: the split of money, player contract rights and who pays for the damage caused by the lockout.
The contract issue in particular has flared up recently, with Pittsburgh Penguins captain Sidney Crosby sounding off on that topic to reporters on Monday. The NHL has proposed changes to entry-level deals, arbitration, free agency and contract limits.
"The question I'd ask is why would we change that?" said Crosby. "I think we all think it's the most competitive league in the world so why would you go and change that -- the way contracts go and the way teams can operate?"
Fehr and Daly discussed the player rights issue during a meeting on Sunday afternoon, and the union leader doesn't believe it will ultimately keep them from striking a deal.
"We're not making any real progress in those areas," said Fehr. "It's kind of hard to believe anyone's going to drive the industry bus off a cliff over things like that, but I've seen things before that surprise me."
On a more positive note, he indicated that the sides were "fairly close" to an agreement on revenue sharing. It's believed the NHL is willing to bump the annual pot to $220 million from its current position of $140 million.
The NHL lockout has been ongoing since mid-September and forced the cancellation of all regular-season games through Nov. 30. It is believed a deal would need to be struck early next week for a shortened season to begin on Dec. 1.
On Monday, Fehr was joined on the labour issues panel by Toronto Maple Leafs GM Brian Burke, New York Giants assistant GM Kevin Abrams and Toronto Raptors vice-president Ed Stefanski.
Most of the talk centred on the NHL negotiations, which kept Burke uncharacteristically quiet because team officials can be fined up to $1 million for speaking about the CBA. At one point, he quipped: "This is painful."
Fehr also spoke of his experiences with the Major League Baseball Players' Association, where he earned the nickname "Designated Optimist" during the 2002 talks, and observed that lockouts seem to have become unavoidable in sports with a salary cap.
"It's almost as if in the capped sports it's become a rewriting of the Hippocratic Oath," said Fehr. "Instead of first 'do no harm,' it's first lockout and then we'll see what happens. I guess they've decided they can live with how the fans feel about it and they're not going to by shy about doing it."
He also hinted that NHL owners might not be taking the union seriously during these negotiations.
"It does remind me certainly of some disputes long ago in baseball," said Fehr. "In some ways, it reminds me of baseball in the 80's and maybe the early 90's before the baseball owners, in our view, accepted that the union was here to stay and wanted to make a deal with the union as opposed to fighting with the union.
"We'll see."
Read more: Deal can be made quickly once breakthrough happens in NHL talks, Fehr says
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There's no question that Joe Sakic is one of the greatest players of his generation, or any generation. His induction into the Hockey Hall of Fame this week underscores that, as do his lofty places on the NHL's all-time scoring lists, despite skating through quasi-legal clutches and grabs for a good portion of his prime. (And actually facing goaltenders with technique, and defensive systems designed to shut him down.)
But what about at his position?
In the last 25 years, we've seen the center spot dominated by the greatest player to ever lace up the skates, and the player many assume could have been even greater had it not been for his various ailments. We've seen two of the greatest captains in NHL history own the position in various ways.
If you were going to craft a Top 10 all-time greatest centers, Sakic would make the cut. But where?
Adrian Dater of the Denver Post put together a group of 10 great hockey minds (OK, nine and myself) to ascertain where Sakic falls in the "best of all-time" ranking, ahead of the former Colorado Avalanche captain's induction.
The list, via the Denver Post (first place on each ballot got 10 points and yadda yadda):
1. Wayne Gretzky, 100
2. Mario Lemieux, 89
3. Jean Béliveau, 74
4. Mark Messier, 68
5. Phil Esposito, 39
6. Steve Yzerman, 36
7. Bryan Trottier, 34
8. Joe Sakic, 31
9. Stan Mikita, 16
10. Howie Morenz, 12
Others receiving votes: Igor Larionov, 11; Bobby Clarke, 10; Peter Forsberg, 7; Peter Stastny, 5; Marcel Dionne, 4; Ron Francis, 4; Bill Cowley, 3; Sidney Crosby, 1; Pat LaFontaine, 1; Henri Richard, 1; Adam Oates, 1.
Obviously, there are some generational challenges when voting for an "all-time" list. For example, I wasn't able to watch every player on this list. Not because I'm in my mid-30s, but because my family had SportsChannel in the 1980s.
That said, my admittedly era-biased contribution to the voting:
1. Wayne Gretzky
2. Mario Lemieux
3. Jean Beliveau
4. Mark Messier
5. Bryan Trottier
6. Steve Yzerman
7. Joe Sakic
8. Peter Stastny
9. Bobby Clarke
10. Pat Lafontaine
I told Dater to give me a shout if I had any oversights, and I still wish he had screamed "PHIL ESPOSITO, DUMMY" into my simian brain. He would have made the cut, likely after Messier.
Outside of that whiff, for the most part, a self-explanatory ranking … but a few clarifications.
Sakic vs. Yzerman rivals Nirvana vs. Pearl Jam in passionate 1990s-centric debates, but Yzerman had higher offensive peaks, a better all-around game and may still trump Nicklas Lidstrom as the best captain in Red Wings history — and that ain't easy. He also modulated his game to become a different player as he aged, which is one of the most admirable traits I find in a professional athlete.
(Scott Stevens, whose leadership Claude Lemieux likened to that of Joe Sakic on Marek Vs. Wyshynski on Monday, was another player who turned his game inside out during his career, to the betterment of his team's success.) Stastny would be considered the greatest playmaker of his era were it not for Gretzky. I've heard that from enough people in the game to buy it. And if you're someone that believes Mats Sundin's greatness was hindered because of the teams he played for, Stastny has 977 regular season games and 93 playoff games. Jeepers.
Clarke's combination of offense, defense and evil is unmatched. I don't know if you could properly compare him to the offensive juggernauts on this list, but he was the best in the world at what he did. And what he did frequently involved his stick and your midsection.
Lafontaine gets the coveted "what if?" spot as an offensive dynamo cut down by injuries (see also: Eric Lindros and Peter Forsberg). But he'd obviously would be off the list had I not brain-farted on Espo. Which is a shame, because I do a really good Espo impression. I feel shame.
Joe Sakic and the top 10 NHL centers of all-time | Puck Daddy - Yahoo! Sports
But what about at his position?
In the last 25 years, we've seen the center spot dominated by the greatest player to ever lace up the skates, and the player many assume could have been even greater had it not been for his various ailments. We've seen two of the greatest captains in NHL history own the position in various ways.
If you were going to craft a Top 10 all-time greatest centers, Sakic would make the cut. But where?
Adrian Dater of the Denver Post put together a group of 10 great hockey minds (OK, nine and myself) to ascertain where Sakic falls in the "best of all-time" ranking, ahead of the former Colorado Avalanche captain's induction.
The list, via the Denver Post (first place on each ballot got 10 points and yadda yadda):
1. Wayne Gretzky, 100
2. Mario Lemieux, 89
3. Jean Béliveau, 74
4. Mark Messier, 68
5. Phil Esposito, 39
6. Steve Yzerman, 36
7. Bryan Trottier, 34
8. Joe Sakic, 31
9. Stan Mikita, 16
10. Howie Morenz, 12
Others receiving votes: Igor Larionov, 11; Bobby Clarke, 10; Peter Forsberg, 7; Peter Stastny, 5; Marcel Dionne, 4; Ron Francis, 4; Bill Cowley, 3; Sidney Crosby, 1; Pat LaFontaine, 1; Henri Richard, 1; Adam Oates, 1.
Obviously, there are some generational challenges when voting for an "all-time" list. For example, I wasn't able to watch every player on this list. Not because I'm in my mid-30s, but because my family had SportsChannel in the 1980s.
That said, my admittedly era-biased contribution to the voting:
1. Wayne Gretzky
2. Mario Lemieux
3. Jean Beliveau
4. Mark Messier
5. Bryan Trottier
6. Steve Yzerman
7. Joe Sakic
8. Peter Stastny
9. Bobby Clarke
10. Pat Lafontaine
I told Dater to give me a shout if I had any oversights, and I still wish he had screamed "PHIL ESPOSITO, DUMMY" into my simian brain. He would have made the cut, likely after Messier.
Outside of that whiff, for the most part, a self-explanatory ranking … but a few clarifications.
Sakic vs. Yzerman rivals Nirvana vs. Pearl Jam in passionate 1990s-centric debates, but Yzerman had higher offensive peaks, a better all-around game and may still trump Nicklas Lidstrom as the best captain in Red Wings history — and that ain't easy. He also modulated his game to become a different player as he aged, which is one of the most admirable traits I find in a professional athlete.
(Scott Stevens, whose leadership Claude Lemieux likened to that of Joe Sakic on Marek Vs. Wyshynski on Monday, was another player who turned his game inside out during his career, to the betterment of his team's success.) Stastny would be considered the greatest playmaker of his era were it not for Gretzky. I've heard that from enough people in the game to buy it. And if you're someone that believes Mats Sundin's greatness was hindered because of the teams he played for, Stastny has 977 regular season games and 93 playoff games. Jeepers.
Clarke's combination of offense, defense and evil is unmatched. I don't know if you could properly compare him to the offensive juggernauts on this list, but he was the best in the world at what he did. And what he did frequently involved his stick and your midsection.
Lafontaine gets the coveted "what if?" spot as an offensive dynamo cut down by injuries (see also: Eric Lindros and Peter Forsberg). But he'd obviously would be off the list had I not brain-farted on Espo. Which is a shame, because I do a really good Espo impression. I feel shame.
Joe Sakic and the top 10 NHL centers of all-time | Puck Daddy - Yahoo! Sports
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Now the NHL and players' association aren't even talking by phone. With the lockout about to enter its third month, communications between the sides have come to a halt.
"No, we have not communicated today," NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said Wednesday. "No meetings scheduled, and no plans to meet."
After four straight days of negotiations in New York last week, talks broke off Friday night. Discussions resumed Sunday, but that lasted just 90 minutes.
"The players remain prepared to resume negotiations at any time," NHLPA special counsel Steve Fehr said.
So far, 327 games -- those scheduled through Nov. 30 and the Jan. 1 Winter Classic -- have been canceled by the NHL.
A lockout wiped out the 2004-05 season.
Sports digest: NHL lockout drags on with no negotiations scheduled - San Jose Mercury News
"No, we have not communicated today," NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said Wednesday. "No meetings scheduled, and no plans to meet."
After four straight days of negotiations in New York last week, talks broke off Friday night. Discussions resumed Sunday, but that lasted just 90 minutes.
"The players remain prepared to resume negotiations at any time," NHLPA special counsel Steve Fehr said.
So far, 327 games -- those scheduled through Nov. 30 and the Jan. 1 Winter Classic -- have been canceled by the NHL.
A lockout wiped out the 2004-05 season.
Sports digest: NHL lockout drags on with no negotiations scheduled - San Jose Mercury News
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2006/12/07
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Negotiations had already hit a wall in the ongoing hockey labor fight, and now the NHL has suggested the sides take an official two-week break before getting back to the bargaining table.
NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman floated the idea of a break to players' association executive director Donald Fehr. The union hasn't responded to the league yet, but the players maintained their position on Thursday night that they are ready and willing to meet at any time, and the only way to reach a deal to end the long lockout is to keep talking and negotiating.
"Gary suggested the possibility of a two-week moratorium," NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly wrote in an email to The Associated Press on Thursday night. "I'm disappointed because we don't have a negotiating partner that has any genuine interest in reaching an agreement. Zero interest."
The suggestion of a break was first reported by The Canadian Press on Thursday night.
Read more: NHL suggests 2-week break from negotiations - seattlepi-com
NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman floated the idea of a break to players' association executive director Donald Fehr. The union hasn't responded to the league yet, but the players maintained their position on Thursday night that they are ready and willing to meet at any time, and the only way to reach a deal to end the long lockout is to keep talking and negotiating.
"Gary suggested the possibility of a two-week moratorium," NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly wrote in an email to The Associated Press on Thursday night. "I'm disappointed because we don't have a negotiating partner that has any genuine interest in reaching an agreement. Zero interest."
The suggestion of a break was first reported by The Canadian Press on Thursday night.
Read more: NHL suggests 2-week break from negotiations - seattlepi-com
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The Bettman Backtrack on Friday, Day 62 of the NHL lockout, was just as frustrating as the commissioner’s Thursday slip-up.
Gary Bettman had recommended a two-week moratorium on collective bargaining negotiations to players’ union executive director Don Fehr as reported on Thursday, but on Friday Yahoo! Sports reported the commissioner did so only because he wanted to prove to the union he had no intention of canceling the season as early at Dec. 1.
Instead of simply telling Fehr that wasn’t true, Bettman — who believed the union felt Dec. 1 was the drop-dead date for the season to be canceled — reportedly suggested two weeks without meetings to prove it.
The Yahoo report said Bettman had heard that Fehr told players in an internal conference call that the owners’ “date” was Dec. 1. The Canadian Press first reported on Thursday night that Bettman had recommended the 14-day dark period, even though the league is expected to cancel at least the first half of its December schedule before Thanksgiving.
Fehr and the union have used stall tactics and refused to negotiate on the NHL’s terms on several occasions to back the league off of its financial and contractual demands, and the league likely is enraged that a comment made by Bettman in a private conversation has become a union sound bite.
But the fact is, this is just the latest Bettman misstep: From the league’s arrogant first proposal on July 13, to the lockout itself, to the NHL’s dismissal of three NHLPA proposals in 10 minutes on Oct. 18, to multiple attempts to circumvent Fehr’s authority — all with the commish leading the charge.
“I find it incredible that the Union is suggesting that we are somehow ‘close’ to a deal," NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly fired back in a statement. “They have utterly refused to negotiate for months. They have made essentially one proposal — five times. They continue to request a ‘guaranteed’ Players Share as part of the next agreement and we repeatedly tell them maybe they should get a reality check. And in the meantime, maybe they can make their position clear to us on 50-50, on the make-whole and on Player Contracting issue.”
Read more: NHL commissioner Gary Bettman backtracks on two-week moratorium statement - NY Daily News
Gary Bettman had recommended a two-week moratorium on collective bargaining negotiations to players’ union executive director Don Fehr as reported on Thursday, but on Friday Yahoo! Sports reported the commissioner did so only because he wanted to prove to the union he had no intention of canceling the season as early at Dec. 1.
Instead of simply telling Fehr that wasn’t true, Bettman — who believed the union felt Dec. 1 was the drop-dead date for the season to be canceled — reportedly suggested two weeks without meetings to prove it.
The Yahoo report said Bettman had heard that Fehr told players in an internal conference call that the owners’ “date” was Dec. 1. The Canadian Press first reported on Thursday night that Bettman had recommended the 14-day dark period, even though the league is expected to cancel at least the first half of its December schedule before Thanksgiving.
Fehr and the union have used stall tactics and refused to negotiate on the NHL’s terms on several occasions to back the league off of its financial and contractual demands, and the league likely is enraged that a comment made by Bettman in a private conversation has become a union sound bite.
But the fact is, this is just the latest Bettman misstep: From the league’s arrogant first proposal on July 13, to the lockout itself, to the NHL’s dismissal of three NHLPA proposals in 10 minutes on Oct. 18, to multiple attempts to circumvent Fehr’s authority — all with the commish leading the charge.
“I find it incredible that the Union is suggesting that we are somehow ‘close’ to a deal," NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly fired back in a statement. “They have utterly refused to negotiate for months. They have made essentially one proposal — five times. They continue to request a ‘guaranteed’ Players Share as part of the next agreement and we repeatedly tell them maybe they should get a reality check. And in the meantime, maybe they can make their position clear to us on 50-50, on the make-whole and on Player Contracting issue.”
Read more: NHL commissioner Gary Bettman backtracks on two-week moratorium statement - NY Daily News
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NHL bargaining talks will resume Monday in New York City, the league told ESPN.
The two sides haven't met since Nov. 11 and exchanged harsh words during the past week.
NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly and NHL Players' Association outside counsel Steve Fehr spoke Saturday to decide the next step in the labor logjam. "We can confirm that we have tentatively agreed to get back together on Monday, either late in the afternoon or early evening," Daly said. "The meeting was requested by the union and it's their agenda. We will see what they have to tell us."
Multiple sources told ESPN that commissioner Gary Bettman suggested Wednesday that the two sides take a two-week moratorium, as they remained divided on how to share revenue and player contract issues, as well as who should shoulder the financial burden of the losses incurred as a result of the lockout.
"I don't see the point behind that," Rangers captain Ryan Callahan said of the reprieve. "I know we want to negotiate."
Callahan called Bettman's suggestion of a two-week hiatus a "waste of time."
"It doesn't make sense to me," he said.
With scant optimism that a new collective bargaining agreement will be reached soon, reports surfaced Thursday that the next round of cancellations could be on the horizon.
The league already has been forced to cancel 327 regular-season games -- through Nov. 30 -- as well as the annual Winter Classic. There also has been speculation that the fate of the season may be in jeopardy soon.
NHL says bargaining talks will resume Monday - ESPN Dallas
The two sides haven't met since Nov. 11 and exchanged harsh words during the past week.
NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly and NHL Players' Association outside counsel Steve Fehr spoke Saturday to decide the next step in the labor logjam. "We can confirm that we have tentatively agreed to get back together on Monday, either late in the afternoon or early evening," Daly said. "The meeting was requested by the union and it's their agenda. We will see what they have to tell us."
Multiple sources told ESPN that commissioner Gary Bettman suggested Wednesday that the two sides take a two-week moratorium, as they remained divided on how to share revenue and player contract issues, as well as who should shoulder the financial burden of the losses incurred as a result of the lockout.
"I don't see the point behind that," Rangers captain Ryan Callahan said of the reprieve. "I know we want to negotiate."
Callahan called Bettman's suggestion of a two-week hiatus a "waste of time."
"It doesn't make sense to me," he said.
With scant optimism that a new collective bargaining agreement will be reached soon, reports surfaced Thursday that the next round of cancellations could be on the horizon.
The league already has been forced to cancel 327 regular-season games -- through Nov. 30 -- as well as the annual Winter Classic. There also has been speculation that the fate of the season may be in jeopardy soon.
NHL says bargaining talks will resume Monday - ESPN Dallas
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Negotiations are on again but this time there is no giddy sense of optimism the end of the NHL lockout is at hand.
The gloom and anger, which grew late last week on both sides of the labour dispute following the news that NHL commissioner Gary Bettman suggested a two-week moratorium on negotiations, has not lifted. Conversations with people in both the management and union ranks showed most were pessimistic even an abbreviated 2012-13 season could be saved and news that the union and management will try to restart the negotiations provided only a slight lift to the sour feelings. As one governor put it, the only reason to feel even a slight sense of optimism is the fact they are talking again. The vast difference between the league and the union remains.
After a couple of conversations between NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly and NHL Players’ Association special counsel Steve Fehr on the weekend, it was decided to take another stab at a full negotiating session. The talks will begin Monday in New York and both Bettman and NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr are expected to attend along with some players and owners.
“We can confirm that we have tentatively agreed to get back together on Monday, either late in the afternoon or early evening,” Daly said in an e-mail message. “The meeting was requested by the union and it’s their agenda. We will see what they have to tell us.”
Daly did not know if the union will be bringing a new proposal. A union spokesman declined to say if anything new will be brought to the table. The union was the only party interested in continuing negotiations, as the league made it known last week it would only negotiate again if the union came up with a new proposal.
There was some excitement on Saturday after the Philadelphia Daily News reported Philadelphia Flyers chairman Ed Snider was unhappy with Bettman and Boston Bruins owner Jeremy Jacobs, the chairman of the NHL board of governors. The story said Snider, one of the most powerful owners in the league, was trying to rally enough support among the other owners to push Bettman toward a deal.
However, Snider issued a statement saying the story was “absolutely erroneous.” He said he remains a “solid supporter” of Bettman.
Snider is not considered a hardliner by his fellow governors, as the lockout is costing him on two fronts. The Flyers are owned by Comcast, which also owns the NBC television network. NBC was looking forward to kicking off its new $200-million (all currency U.S.) per year contract with the NHL later this week on the U.S. Thanksgiving holiday.
However, more than one governor pointed out it is almost impossible for the moderates to gain control. While Bettman needs only eight of 30 votes to turn down a proposal for a collective agreement from the NHLPA, it would take 23 to force him to accept one. The governors say the opinions in their ranks are so split neither the hardliners nor the moderates could rally 23 votes.
Recent days have shown there are sharp differences between the players and owners on more issues than the major one of splitting hockey-related revenue. While the players and owners have agreed to an eventual 50-50 split, the owners want to move to it immediately while the players want a gradual move from the 57 per cent share of revenue they received in the former agreement.
But there are also differences in contract rights, such as free agency, contract lengths and limits to annual salary increases. The players also want to receive the full value of their existing contracts.
The owners have offered to put $211-million over two years toward “making the players whole” as long as it is deferred for one year after the new agreement begins. The players say that will not cover 100 per cent of their contracts.
NHL talks resume, but optimism doesn
The gloom and anger, which grew late last week on both sides of the labour dispute following the news that NHL commissioner Gary Bettman suggested a two-week moratorium on negotiations, has not lifted. Conversations with people in both the management and union ranks showed most were pessimistic even an abbreviated 2012-13 season could be saved and news that the union and management will try to restart the negotiations provided only a slight lift to the sour feelings. As one governor put it, the only reason to feel even a slight sense of optimism is the fact they are talking again. The vast difference between the league and the union remains.
After a couple of conversations between NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly and NHL Players’ Association special counsel Steve Fehr on the weekend, it was decided to take another stab at a full negotiating session. The talks will begin Monday in New York and both Bettman and NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr are expected to attend along with some players and owners.
“We can confirm that we have tentatively agreed to get back together on Monday, either late in the afternoon or early evening,” Daly said in an e-mail message. “The meeting was requested by the union and it’s their agenda. We will see what they have to tell us.”
Daly did not know if the union will be bringing a new proposal. A union spokesman declined to say if anything new will be brought to the table. The union was the only party interested in continuing negotiations, as the league made it known last week it would only negotiate again if the union came up with a new proposal.
There was some excitement on Saturday after the Philadelphia Daily News reported Philadelphia Flyers chairman Ed Snider was unhappy with Bettman and Boston Bruins owner Jeremy Jacobs, the chairman of the NHL board of governors. The story said Snider, one of the most powerful owners in the league, was trying to rally enough support among the other owners to push Bettman toward a deal.
However, Snider issued a statement saying the story was “absolutely erroneous.” He said he remains a “solid supporter” of Bettman.
Snider is not considered a hardliner by his fellow governors, as the lockout is costing him on two fronts. The Flyers are owned by Comcast, which also owns the NBC television network. NBC was looking forward to kicking off its new $200-million (all currency U.S.) per year contract with the NHL later this week on the U.S. Thanksgiving holiday.
However, more than one governor pointed out it is almost impossible for the moderates to gain control. While Bettman needs only eight of 30 votes to turn down a proposal for a collective agreement from the NHLPA, it would take 23 to force him to accept one. The governors say the opinions in their ranks are so split neither the hardliners nor the moderates could rally 23 votes.
Recent days have shown there are sharp differences between the players and owners on more issues than the major one of splitting hockey-related revenue. While the players and owners have agreed to an eventual 50-50 split, the owners want to move to it immediately while the players want a gradual move from the 57 per cent share of revenue they received in the former agreement.
But there are also differences in contract rights, such as free agency, contract lengths and limits to annual salary increases. The players also want to receive the full value of their existing contracts.
The owners have offered to put $211-million over two years toward “making the players whole” as long as it is deferred for one year after the new agreement begins. The players say that will not cover 100 per cent of their contracts.
NHL talks resume, but optimism doesn
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If the first bargaining session in eight days between the NHL and the players' association made any headway, neither side tipped its hand.
A large contingent of players got together with league leadership on Monday night and met for under two hours.
Not a whole lot was accomplished on the road to a new agreement that could get the hockey season going, but at least there was optimism that the sides would get together again - likely as soon as Tuesday.
''We talked about various things,'' union executive director Donald Fehr said on a chilly Manhattan sidewalk outside the NHL office. ''No new proposals were made, they were not expected to be made. We had hoped to engage them in a discussion about the player contracting issues that are so important to the players. At least tonight they were unwilling to do that.''
The league contends that it is waiting for the players to present a full proposal on all the major issues - including core economics and player contracting, which deals with the entry-level system, arbitration and free agency. After the request was made, the players' association asked for a break and the meeting adjourned soon after.
''We've never heard a full proposal from them,'' NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said. ''They have given us a variation of the same proposal on economics a couple of times and there was no change in that position. They are still suggesting that they are moving in our direction on economics, but until we know exactly what their position is on economics now, we think it's all tied together and would like to hear it all together.
''It's our position that we've made a couple comprehensive proposals in a row. We'd like to know where they are on all of the issues. We asked that they put together a comprehensive proposal for us to consider.''
Union representatives, along with 18 players who were in attendance, returned to the players' association office to have further internal discussions Monday night.
The sides agreed to get back in touch on Tuesday morning, and the feeling on both ends was that it likely would lead to another face-to-face meeting.
''It's certainly a good possibility of it. I would say it's more likely than not,'' Fehr said.
The players wanted to put focus on the player-contract issues on Monday night before returning to specific revenue and economic areas, but the NHL wasn't interested in that because the league considers everything to be intertwined.
Neither side wants to agree to anything, or make concessions in one single area, without knowing how those will affect other parts of the CBA that still need to be negotiated.
''Our position all along has been on the player contracting issues that they become considerably more important to players as the cap becomes limited,'' Fehr said. ''We made proposals in a couple of areas in this regard, which moved toward them, but we wanted to talk about the rest of these to see where we were. We indicated to them the last time we met and again today that if we put aside for a moment the effect of the lockout on revenues - we didn't think we were too far apart on the share - and if that was right we can back into a discussion on the revenues. We wanted to know where we were on the player contracting stuff first, and they were unwilling to do that - at least tonight.''
Fehr said the NHLPA would consider the NHL's request for a full proposal, and try to figure out what the next step will be. No one would say if they thought such an offer could come on Tuesday.
Whether hockey will return soon, or at all this season, is still to be determined. The lockout entered its 65th day on Monday and has already wiped out 327 games. More cancellations could be coming soon, but the NHL hasn't said when another such announcement might be coming.
''I think every week is important in the process,'' Daly said. ''I don't attach a particular significance to this week over last week or next week. I want to play tomorrow.''
After turning down a suggestion from NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman to take a two-week break from negotiations, the union requested another meeting with the league. Monday night's meeting was scheduled on Saturday.
''We could've taken a couple of weeks off, I suppose,'' Fehr said. ''It's hard for me to see how you make an agreement if you aren't talking, so you talk. Sometimes it doesn't lead anywhere, and perhaps very often it doesn't lead anywhere, but if you aren't talking it's 100 percent sure it doesn't lead anywhere.
''They were willing to have the meeting if we said we wanted to meet. That is about as far as I can go.''
Daly said the NHL is always willing to listen if the players have something meaningful to say.
''We're never going to shut down the process,'' he said. ''If they think there is a reason to meet and we can make progress, we're happy to meet. That's what we told them and that's what led to today's meeting.''
It was the first bargaining session between the sides since Nov. 11, when a busy week of negotiating wrapped up with a session that lasted just over an hour and didn't produce any results. All games through Nov. 30 and the New Year's Day Winter Classic have been called off.
One area in which the NHL hasn't budged off its position is in the area of guaranteed dollars to players.
''If their proposal continues to be a guaranteed amount of player-share dollars, we have told them that that is not a proposal that is acceptable to us or would ever to be acceptable to our owners right now,'' Daly said. ''If that continues to be where we are, we are a long way apart.''
Frustration is building on both sides, and it has spilled over in recent days. The NHL has placed a gag order on its personnel throughout the league, but players are free to speak out, and are welcome to attend any bargaining sessions.
The latest verbal shot toward Bettman and Daly came on Monday when Florida Panthers forward Kris Versteeg was interv
A large contingent of players got together with league leadership on Monday night and met for under two hours.
Not a whole lot was accomplished on the road to a new agreement that could get the hockey season going, but at least there was optimism that the sides would get together again - likely as soon as Tuesday.
''We talked about various things,'' union executive director Donald Fehr said on a chilly Manhattan sidewalk outside the NHL office. ''No new proposals were made, they were not expected to be made. We had hoped to engage them in a discussion about the player contracting issues that are so important to the players. At least tonight they were unwilling to do that.''
The league contends that it is waiting for the players to present a full proposal on all the major issues - including core economics and player contracting, which deals with the entry-level system, arbitration and free agency. After the request was made, the players' association asked for a break and the meeting adjourned soon after.
''We've never heard a full proposal from them,'' NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said. ''They have given us a variation of the same proposal on economics a couple of times and there was no change in that position. They are still suggesting that they are moving in our direction on economics, but until we know exactly what their position is on economics now, we think it's all tied together and would like to hear it all together.
''It's our position that we've made a couple comprehensive proposals in a row. We'd like to know where they are on all of the issues. We asked that they put together a comprehensive proposal for us to consider.''
Union representatives, along with 18 players who were in attendance, returned to the players' association office to have further internal discussions Monday night.
The sides agreed to get back in touch on Tuesday morning, and the feeling on both ends was that it likely would lead to another face-to-face meeting.
''It's certainly a good possibility of it. I would say it's more likely than not,'' Fehr said.
The players wanted to put focus on the player-contract issues on Monday night before returning to specific revenue and economic areas, but the NHL wasn't interested in that because the league considers everything to be intertwined.
Neither side wants to agree to anything, or make concessions in one single area, without knowing how those will affect other parts of the CBA that still need to be negotiated.
''Our position all along has been on the player contracting issues that they become considerably more important to players as the cap becomes limited,'' Fehr said. ''We made proposals in a couple of areas in this regard, which moved toward them, but we wanted to talk about the rest of these to see where we were. We indicated to them the last time we met and again today that if we put aside for a moment the effect of the lockout on revenues - we didn't think we were too far apart on the share - and if that was right we can back into a discussion on the revenues. We wanted to know where we were on the player contracting stuff first, and they were unwilling to do that - at least tonight.''
Fehr said the NHLPA would consider the NHL's request for a full proposal, and try to figure out what the next step will be. No one would say if they thought such an offer could come on Tuesday.
Whether hockey will return soon, or at all this season, is still to be determined. The lockout entered its 65th day on Monday and has already wiped out 327 games. More cancellations could be coming soon, but the NHL hasn't said when another such announcement might be coming.
''I think every week is important in the process,'' Daly said. ''I don't attach a particular significance to this week over last week or next week. I want to play tomorrow.''
After turning down a suggestion from NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman to take a two-week break from negotiations, the union requested another meeting with the league. Monday night's meeting was scheduled on Saturday.
''We could've taken a couple of weeks off, I suppose,'' Fehr said. ''It's hard for me to see how you make an agreement if you aren't talking, so you talk. Sometimes it doesn't lead anywhere, and perhaps very often it doesn't lead anywhere, but if you aren't talking it's 100 percent sure it doesn't lead anywhere.
''They were willing to have the meeting if we said we wanted to meet. That is about as far as I can go.''
Daly said the NHL is always willing to listen if the players have something meaningful to say.
''We're never going to shut down the process,'' he said. ''If they think there is a reason to meet and we can make progress, we're happy to meet. That's what we told them and that's what led to today's meeting.''
It was the first bargaining session between the sides since Nov. 11, when a busy week of negotiating wrapped up with a session that lasted just over an hour and didn't produce any results. All games through Nov. 30 and the New Year's Day Winter Classic have been called off.
One area in which the NHL hasn't budged off its position is in the area of guaranteed dollars to players.
''If their proposal continues to be a guaranteed amount of player-share dollars, we have told them that that is not a proposal that is acceptable to us or would ever to be acceptable to our owners right now,'' Daly said. ''If that continues to be where we are, we are a long way apart.''
Frustration is building on both sides, and it has spilled over in recent days. The NHL has placed a gag order on its personnel throughout the league, but players are free to speak out, and are welcome to attend any bargaining sessions.
The latest verbal shot toward Bettman and Daly came on Monday when Florida Panthers forward Kris Versteeg was interv
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Negotiations aimed at ended the league's lockout will resume this morning at the NHL office, the players' association said in a statement Tuesday. Before Monday night's 90-minute bargaining session, it had been eight days since the sides got together.
Whether the players' association will bring a new complete proposal, as requested by the NHL Monday, to the next round of talks remained uncertain. But the union huddled for internal conversations after negotiations ended, and continued talking Tuesday -- pushing further bargaining back a day.
"It looks like tomorrow," NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly told the Associated Press in an e-mail Tuesday. "No other details at this point."
The lockout entered its 66th day Tuesday and already has wiped out 327 games. More cancellations could be coming soon without a new deal.
While neither side offered much insight following Monday night's talks, there didn't seem to be any of the anger that reportedly existed when the previous negotiations ended a week earlier. Both sides looked forward to when they would reconvene to try to reach the elusive deal that would end the lockout that has already shortened the season and threatens scrap it completely.
"We talked about various things," union executive director Donald Fehr said Monday. "No new proposals were made, they were not expected to be made. We had hoped to engage them in a discussion about the player-contracting issues that are so important to the players. At least (Monday) they were unwilling to do that."
The prevailing question is when will one side say something the other really wants to hear. These negotiations have been going for a while, yet there hasn't been any kind of breakthrough to pave the way to a new collective bargaining agreement.
Both sides know the lockout has inflicted a lot of damage on the sport that produced record revenues of over $3 billion last season. Every day of lost time is hurting everyone, and at some point owners and players will have to decide how much of the losses each side will have to absorb.
"I think every week is important in the process," Daly said Monday. "I don't attach a particular significance to this week over last week or next week. I want to play tomorrow."
The league contends it is waiting for the players to present a full proposal on all the major issues -- including core economics and player contracting, which deals with the entry-level system, arbitration and free agency. After the request was made, the players' association asked for a break and the meeting adjourned soon after.
"We've never heard a full proposal from them," Daly said. "They have given us a variation of the same proposal on economics a couple of times and there was no change in that position. They are still suggesting that they are moving in our direction on economics, but until we know exactly what their position is on economics now, we think it's all tied together and would like to hear it all together."
Union representatives, along with 18 players who were in attendance, returned to the players' association office to have discussions among themselves. It is unclear if talks will continue through the Thanksgiving holiday if progress is made on Wednesday.
The players tried to put the focus on player-contract issues on Monday night before returning to specific revenue and economic areas, but the NHL wasn't interested in that because the league considers everything to be intertwined.
Neither side wants to agree to anything, or make concessions in one single area, without knowing how those will affect other parts of the CBA that still need to be negotiated.
"Our position all along has been on the player contracting issues that they become considerably more important to players as the cap becomes limited," Fehr said.
After turning down a suggestion from NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman to take a two-week break from negotiations, the union requested another meeting with the league. That produced Monday's get-together.
"We could've taken a couple of weeks off, I suppose," Fehr said. "It's hard for me to see how you make an agreement if you aren't talking, so you talk. Sometimes it doesn't lead anywhere, and perhaps very often it doesn't lead anywhere, but if you aren't talking it's 100 percent sure it doesn't lead anywhere.
"They were willing to have the meeting if we said we wanted to meet. That is about as far as I can go."
Daly said the NHL is always willing to listen if the players have something meaningful to say.
"We're never going to shut down the process," he said. "If they think there is a reason to meet and we can make progress, we're happy to meet. That's what we told them and that's what led to today's meeting."
It was the first bargaining session since Nov. 11, when a busy week of negotiating wrapped up without results. All games through Nov. 30 and the New Year's Day Winter Classic have been called off. More games -- including the All-Star game in Columbus, Ohio -- could soon be axed, too.
One area in which the NHL hasn't budged is in the area of guaranteed money to players. The league wants a percentage split of actual hockey-related revenue instead of a promised dollar amount to players based on projections of how the game will grow.
"If their proposal continues to be a guaranteed amount of player-share dollars, we have told them that that is not a proposal that is acceptable to us or would ever to be acceptable to our owners right now," Daly said. "If that continues to be where we are, we are a long way apart."
NHL labor talks to resume Wednesday morning | GoErie-com/Erie Times-News
Whether the players' association will bring a new complete proposal, as requested by the NHL Monday, to the next round of talks remained uncertain. But the union huddled for internal conversations after negotiations ended, and continued talking Tuesday -- pushing further bargaining back a day.
"It looks like tomorrow," NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly told the Associated Press in an e-mail Tuesday. "No other details at this point."
The lockout entered its 66th day Tuesday and already has wiped out 327 games. More cancellations could be coming soon without a new deal.
While neither side offered much insight following Monday night's talks, there didn't seem to be any of the anger that reportedly existed when the previous negotiations ended a week earlier. Both sides looked forward to when they would reconvene to try to reach the elusive deal that would end the lockout that has already shortened the season and threatens scrap it completely.
"We talked about various things," union executive director Donald Fehr said Monday. "No new proposals were made, they were not expected to be made. We had hoped to engage them in a discussion about the player-contracting issues that are so important to the players. At least (Monday) they were unwilling to do that."
The prevailing question is when will one side say something the other really wants to hear. These negotiations have been going for a while, yet there hasn't been any kind of breakthrough to pave the way to a new collective bargaining agreement.
Both sides know the lockout has inflicted a lot of damage on the sport that produced record revenues of over $3 billion last season. Every day of lost time is hurting everyone, and at some point owners and players will have to decide how much of the losses each side will have to absorb.
"I think every week is important in the process," Daly said Monday. "I don't attach a particular significance to this week over last week or next week. I want to play tomorrow."
The league contends it is waiting for the players to present a full proposal on all the major issues -- including core economics and player contracting, which deals with the entry-level system, arbitration and free agency. After the request was made, the players' association asked for a break and the meeting adjourned soon after.
"We've never heard a full proposal from them," Daly said. "They have given us a variation of the same proposal on economics a couple of times and there was no change in that position. They are still suggesting that they are moving in our direction on economics, but until we know exactly what their position is on economics now, we think it's all tied together and would like to hear it all together."
Union representatives, along with 18 players who were in attendance, returned to the players' association office to have discussions among themselves. It is unclear if talks will continue through the Thanksgiving holiday if progress is made on Wednesday.
The players tried to put the focus on player-contract issues on Monday night before returning to specific revenue and economic areas, but the NHL wasn't interested in that because the league considers everything to be intertwined.
Neither side wants to agree to anything, or make concessions in one single area, without knowing how those will affect other parts of the CBA that still need to be negotiated.
"Our position all along has been on the player contracting issues that they become considerably more important to players as the cap becomes limited," Fehr said.
After turning down a suggestion from NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman to take a two-week break from negotiations, the union requested another meeting with the league. That produced Monday's get-together.
"We could've taken a couple of weeks off, I suppose," Fehr said. "It's hard for me to see how you make an agreement if you aren't talking, so you talk. Sometimes it doesn't lead anywhere, and perhaps very often it doesn't lead anywhere, but if you aren't talking it's 100 percent sure it doesn't lead anywhere.
"They were willing to have the meeting if we said we wanted to meet. That is about as far as I can go."
Daly said the NHL is always willing to listen if the players have something meaningful to say.
"We're never going to shut down the process," he said. "If they think there is a reason to meet and we can make progress, we're happy to meet. That's what we told them and that's what led to today's meeting."
It was the first bargaining session since Nov. 11, when a busy week of negotiating wrapped up without results. All games through Nov. 30 and the New Year's Day Winter Classic have been called off. More games -- including the All-Star game in Columbus, Ohio -- could soon be axed, too.
One area in which the NHL hasn't budged is in the area of guaranteed money to players. The league wants a percentage split of actual hockey-related revenue instead of a promised dollar amount to players based on projections of how the game will grow.
"If their proposal continues to be a guaranteed amount of player-share dollars, we have told them that that is not a proposal that is acceptable to us or would ever to be acceptable to our owners right now," Daly said. "If that continues to be where we are, we are a long way apart."
NHL labor talks to resume Wednesday morning | GoErie-com/Erie Times-News
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It was bound to happen eventually. Several NHL players, including stars Logan Couture, Kevin Shattenkirk, Josh Gorges, and Michael Del Zotto, took to Twitter on Wednesday to express their anger over yet another rejected proposal by the NHL - and it wasn't pretty. Here's what they had to say.
Read More: NHL players frustrated over latest rejected CBA proposal
Read More: NHL players frustrated over latest rejected CBA proposal
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The NBA season was slipping away as Thanksgiving 2011 approached.
The league and the National Basketball Players Assn. were so far apart in labor negotiations that players took the drastic step of dissolving their union by filing a disclaimer of interest, allowing them to initiate class-action antitrust lawsuits against the league. Based on Commissioner David Stern's insistence that the NBA would need 30 days from the time a handshake deal was reached until the season could start, prospects were bleak for preserving the showcase Christmas Day schedule.
After more than a week without talks, negotiators met on the Tuesday before Thanksgiving. By the early hours of Saturday, Nov. 26, they had forged a new collective bargaining agreement. The NBA tipped off a shortened season on Dec. 25 before TV audiences that were substantially larger than those of the year before.
The NHL has followed the NBA's path in many ways: by adopting a salary cap, turning its All-Star game into a weekend gala, and in hiring former NBA executive Gary Bettman as its commissioner. But it won't also be announcing a Thanksgiving weekend labor agreement.
The two sides are expected to speak by phone on Friday, but if anything, the NHL's self-destruction is expected to continue with the cancellations of games into mid-December and the Jan. 27 All-Star game. And the NHL Players' Assn. is said to be considering decertifying the union, according to people who are familiar with the situation but aren't authorized to speak about it publicly.
Buffalo Sabres goaltender Ryan Miller told Canada's Globe and Mail on Thursday he favors decertification after seeing NFL and NBA players apply pressure by using that option in their labor disputes last year.
"It is apparent that until decertification is filed, there will not be any real movement or negotiation," Miller said. "Decertification becomes part of the script because Gary Bettman and the owners are trying to get a sense of how far they can push us and at some point we have to say, 'Enough.'
"They want to see if we will take a bad deal because we get desperate or if we have the strength to push back. Decertification is a push back and should show we want a negotiation and a fair deal on at least some of our terms."
Mathematically, the NHL and the union don't seem far apart. Philosophically, they're facing off across the Grand Canyon.
After negotiations that halted Wednesday for Thanksgiving, NHLPA Executive Director Donald Fehr put the gap at $182 million over a five-year deal. In addition to a 50-50 split of hockey-related revenues the NHLPA proposed that players get $393 million to "make whole" salaries that will be dented by escrow payments as they go to a 50% share after getting 57% last season. The NHL has proposed $211 million in "make whole" payments over a seven-year agreement.
The NHL's objection is that those payments would likely put players' share of hockey-related revenues over 50% in the first four years of the deal based on projections of revenues decreasing from last season's $3.3 billion because of damage inflicted by the lockout. The NHL wants to hold firm at 50%.
In addition, the NHL dislikes the union's proposal that "beginning with the second year of the Agreement, players' share, expressed in dollars, may not fall below its value for the prior season." The league read that as saying it would shoulder the whole burden if revenues decline and it wants players to share any pain.
There are other differences. The NHL wants a maximum of five years for players' contracts to avoid long, salary cap-circumventing deals and would delay salary arbitration and unrestricted free agency a year. The union opposes those concepts, feeling it has conceded enough financially and shouldn't concede more.
And so Thanksgiving weekend will pass without any reason to believe pucks will drop in NHL rinks anytime soon. If that's still true when Christmas rolls around, the NHL can say goodbye to a meaningful season and the dwindling number of fans and advertisers who care about its future.
NHL, players can't break the ice - latimes-com
The league and the National Basketball Players Assn. were so far apart in labor negotiations that players took the drastic step of dissolving their union by filing a disclaimer of interest, allowing them to initiate class-action antitrust lawsuits against the league. Based on Commissioner David Stern's insistence that the NBA would need 30 days from the time a handshake deal was reached until the season could start, prospects were bleak for preserving the showcase Christmas Day schedule.
After more than a week without talks, negotiators met on the Tuesday before Thanksgiving. By the early hours of Saturday, Nov. 26, they had forged a new collective bargaining agreement. The NBA tipped off a shortened season on Dec. 25 before TV audiences that were substantially larger than those of the year before.
The NHL has followed the NBA's path in many ways: by adopting a salary cap, turning its All-Star game into a weekend gala, and in hiring former NBA executive Gary Bettman as its commissioner. But it won't also be announcing a Thanksgiving weekend labor agreement.
The two sides are expected to speak by phone on Friday, but if anything, the NHL's self-destruction is expected to continue with the cancellations of games into mid-December and the Jan. 27 All-Star game. And the NHL Players' Assn. is said to be considering decertifying the union, according to people who are familiar with the situation but aren't authorized to speak about it publicly.
Buffalo Sabres goaltender Ryan Miller told Canada's Globe and Mail on Thursday he favors decertification after seeing NFL and NBA players apply pressure by using that option in their labor disputes last year.
"It is apparent that until decertification is filed, there will not be any real movement or negotiation," Miller said. "Decertification becomes part of the script because Gary Bettman and the owners are trying to get a sense of how far they can push us and at some point we have to say, 'Enough.'
"They want to see if we will take a bad deal because we get desperate or if we have the strength to push back. Decertification is a push back and should show we want a negotiation and a fair deal on at least some of our terms."
Mathematically, the NHL and the union don't seem far apart. Philosophically, they're facing off across the Grand Canyon.
After negotiations that halted Wednesday for Thanksgiving, NHLPA Executive Director Donald Fehr put the gap at $182 million over a five-year deal. In addition to a 50-50 split of hockey-related revenues the NHLPA proposed that players get $393 million to "make whole" salaries that will be dented by escrow payments as they go to a 50% share after getting 57% last season. The NHL has proposed $211 million in "make whole" payments over a seven-year agreement.
The NHL's objection is that those payments would likely put players' share of hockey-related revenues over 50% in the first four years of the deal based on projections of revenues decreasing from last season's $3.3 billion because of damage inflicted by the lockout. The NHL wants to hold firm at 50%.
In addition, the NHL dislikes the union's proposal that "beginning with the second year of the Agreement, players' share, expressed in dollars, may not fall below its value for the prior season." The league read that as saying it would shoulder the whole burden if revenues decline and it wants players to share any pain.
There are other differences. The NHL wants a maximum of five years for players' contracts to avoid long, salary cap-circumventing deals and would delay salary arbitration and unrestricted free agency a year. The union opposes those concepts, feeling it has conceded enough financially and shouldn't concede more.
And so Thanksgiving weekend will pass without any reason to believe pucks will drop in NHL rinks anytime soon. If that's still true when Christmas rolls around, the NHL can say goodbye to a meaningful season and the dwindling number of fans and advertisers who care about its future.
NHL, players can't break the ice - latimes-com
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The continuing labor battle between NHL owners and players took its latest toll Friday as the league canceled two more weeks of scheduled games along with the 2013 All-Star Game and other festivities that were set for Columbus, Ohio in late January.
Games have now been canceled through Dec. 14, bringing the total to 422 in all, which represents more than one-third of the season. And now another marquee event has been wiped out after the league earlier canceled the Winter Classic that was set for New Year's Day at Michigan Stadium in Ann Arbor, Mich. The Blue Jackets, part of the NHL's expansion phase that began play in 2000-01, were to host the All-Star contest along with its complementary weekend events for the first time on Jan. 26-27 at Nationwide Arena.
"The reality of losing more regular-season games as well as the 2013 NHL All-Star weekend in Columbus is extremely disappointing," NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said in a statement. "We feel badly for NHL fans and particularly those in Columbus, and we intend to work closely with the Blue Jackets organization to return the NHL All-Star events to Columbus and their fans as quickly as possible."
It would appear that a 60-game season and full postseason could still be salvaged if the two sides can find some means of breaking their impasse and negotiate a new collective bargaining agreement within the next two weeks. But the NHL and the NHL Players' Association have found little common ground in a lockout that began Sept. 16 and is now 69 days old.
The latest round of negotiations ended Wednesday with the league rejecting the union's latest offer of a five-year deal based on moving toward the NHL's desired percentage share linked to hockey-related revenues instead of guaranteed real dollars.
The NHLPA agreed to a 50-50 split of revenues from the beginning of a new CBA but asked the NHL to pay $393 million over four years to "make whole" existing player contracts. The league, which wants a new deal to last six years or longer, has countered by offering $211 million over two years.
NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr referred to the difference in his statement, citing that two more weeks of lost games based on NHL commissioner Gary Bettman's assertion of the league losing $18-20 million per day during the lockout is an amount that "far exceeds the economic gap" between the sides.
"On Wednesday, the players presented a comprehensive proposal, once again moving in the owners' direction in order to get the game back on the ice," Fehr said. "The gap that remains on the core economic issues is $182 million.
"It makes the NHL's announcement of further game cancellations, including the 2013 All-Star weekend, all the more unnecessary, and disappointing for all hockey fans – especially those in Columbus. The players remain ready to negotiate but we require a willing negotiating partner."
The Ducks were to have hosted the Chicago Blackhawks on their annual Black Friday matinee game after Thanksgiving. They've now had five more contests erased and 28 in all, 16 of which were dates at Honda Center that include four consecutive games from Dec. 5-13.
Meanwhile, the Kings have had 29 games canceled and have yet to have the opportunity to unfurl their first Stanley Cup championship banner inside Staples Center.
Player anger continues to rise, particularly after the latest union offer to negotiate off the league's preferred revenue system model was largely dismissed. Bettman has been the target of their vitriol, mainly due to the threat of a $1 million fine for any team that speaks publicly about the ongoing lockout.
Detroit Red Wings defenseman Ian White called Bettman an "idiot" and Florida Panthers winger Kris Versteeg referred to him and Daly as "cancers" who've been "looting this game for far too long."
Dallas Stars forward Ray Whitney, who has been through four work stoppages, told ESPN-com's Pierre LeBrun that those in charge of the league are "not really hockey people" who are "like schoolyard bullies right now." But players have also shied away from criticizing the owners of their own teams.
Several Ducks working out at Anaheim Ice chimed in with their thoughts to the Register's Tanya Lyon earlier this week. Ryan Getzlaf contends that the NHL has its own timetable to settle the labor dispute on its terms while Teemu Selanne reiterated that he would strongly consider retirement if the league were to cancel the remainder of the season.
"The league has done a lot of damage right now," Ducks defenseman Francois Beauchemin said. "We just keep doing it every day that we're not playing. We're losing fans."
One-third of NHL season now canceled; All-Star Game also lost | nhl, league, game - Sports - The Orange County Register
Games have now been canceled through Dec. 14, bringing the total to 422 in all, which represents more than one-third of the season. And now another marquee event has been wiped out after the league earlier canceled the Winter Classic that was set for New Year's Day at Michigan Stadium in Ann Arbor, Mich. The Blue Jackets, part of the NHL's expansion phase that began play in 2000-01, were to host the All-Star contest along with its complementary weekend events for the first time on Jan. 26-27 at Nationwide Arena.
"The reality of losing more regular-season games as well as the 2013 NHL All-Star weekend in Columbus is extremely disappointing," NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said in a statement. "We feel badly for NHL fans and particularly those in Columbus, and we intend to work closely with the Blue Jackets organization to return the NHL All-Star events to Columbus and their fans as quickly as possible."
It would appear that a 60-game season and full postseason could still be salvaged if the two sides can find some means of breaking their impasse and negotiate a new collective bargaining agreement within the next two weeks. But the NHL and the NHL Players' Association have found little common ground in a lockout that began Sept. 16 and is now 69 days old.
The latest round of negotiations ended Wednesday with the league rejecting the union's latest offer of a five-year deal based on moving toward the NHL's desired percentage share linked to hockey-related revenues instead of guaranteed real dollars.
The NHLPA agreed to a 50-50 split of revenues from the beginning of a new CBA but asked the NHL to pay $393 million over four years to "make whole" existing player contracts. The league, which wants a new deal to last six years or longer, has countered by offering $211 million over two years.
NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr referred to the difference in his statement, citing that two more weeks of lost games based on NHL commissioner Gary Bettman's assertion of the league losing $18-20 million per day during the lockout is an amount that "far exceeds the economic gap" between the sides.
"On Wednesday, the players presented a comprehensive proposal, once again moving in the owners' direction in order to get the game back on the ice," Fehr said. "The gap that remains on the core economic issues is $182 million.
"It makes the NHL's announcement of further game cancellations, including the 2013 All-Star weekend, all the more unnecessary, and disappointing for all hockey fans – especially those in Columbus. The players remain ready to negotiate but we require a willing negotiating partner."
The Ducks were to have hosted the Chicago Blackhawks on their annual Black Friday matinee game after Thanksgiving. They've now had five more contests erased and 28 in all, 16 of which were dates at Honda Center that include four consecutive games from Dec. 5-13.
Meanwhile, the Kings have had 29 games canceled and have yet to have the opportunity to unfurl their first Stanley Cup championship banner inside Staples Center.
Player anger continues to rise, particularly after the latest union offer to negotiate off the league's preferred revenue system model was largely dismissed. Bettman has been the target of their vitriol, mainly due to the threat of a $1 million fine for any team that speaks publicly about the ongoing lockout.
Detroit Red Wings defenseman Ian White called Bettman an "idiot" and Florida Panthers winger Kris Versteeg referred to him and Daly as "cancers" who've been "looting this game for far too long."
Dallas Stars forward Ray Whitney, who has been through four work stoppages, told ESPN-com's Pierre LeBrun that those in charge of the league are "not really hockey people" who are "like schoolyard bullies right now." But players have also shied away from criticizing the owners of their own teams.
Several Ducks working out at Anaheim Ice chimed in with their thoughts to the Register's Tanya Lyon earlier this week. Ryan Getzlaf contends that the NHL has its own timetable to settle the labor dispute on its terms while Teemu Selanne reiterated that he would strongly consider retirement if the league were to cancel the remainder of the season.
"The league has done a lot of damage right now," Ducks defenseman Francois Beauchemin said. "We just keep doing it every day that we're not playing. We're losing fans."
One-third of NHL season now canceled; All-Star Game also lost | nhl, league, game - Sports - The Orange County Register
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Everyone wanted to savor every last moment of what they're missing again -- the 32 NHL players who flocked to South Jersey to raise money for a great cause as well as their ever-passionate and loyal fans.
When a horn signaled the end of 60 minutes of hockey Saturday night at Boardwalk Hall, almost everyone in a sellout crowd was still at their seats standing and cheering.
Moved, two teams of NHL players captained by Philadelphia Flyers All-Star left wing Scott Hartnell and New York Rangers center Brad Richards skated to center ice to toast everyone by raising their sticks again and again. Five minutes later, they were still out there.
"I had chills listening to the fans," Tampa Bay Lightning goal whiz Steven Stamkos said after suiting up for Team Hartnell, a roster filled with a bunch of Flyers who lost 10-6 to Team Richards, one with several Rangers.
In between a lot of entertaining back-and-forth hockey, locked-out NHL fans cheered their players, booed the rest and united to show frustration with NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman, who keeps shutting down his league.
"Fire Bettman … Fire Bettman ... Fire Bettman," a crowd of 10,792 chanted over and over during Operation Hat Trick, a charity hockey game that benefited families of New Jersey and New York victims of superstorm Sandy.
"You knew THAT was coming," Flyers tough guy Jody Shelley said. "Fire Bettman … We had 'Crosby Sucks … We Miss Hockey.' Our fans covered them all, didn't they?"
Sidney Crosby, the player Flyers fans love to hate, wasn't on hand, but his Pittsburgh Penguins teammate James Neal showed up and put on a show scoring four goals for Team Richards.
Hartnell was held scoreless, Stamkos was limited to one assist and Martin Brodeur allowed 10 goals, but no one seemed to care who won or lost. This was an opportunity for hockey fans to cheer on favorite players, support a cause … and loudly vent at Bettman, the ringleader to hockey's third lockout since 1994.
"They were chanting throughout the game, and that's what hockey is all about," Stamkos said. "The sad part is the fans are going through this right now. Obviously, we were here for a much greater cause and the turnout was amazing, but you could just feel the passion of hockey along the East Coast here. These are true passionate hockey fans, and they know what was going on."
Wearing Flyers orange, Stamkos received big cheers during pre-game introductions, but teammate-for-the-night Brodeur didn't get much love from Flyers fans. The legendary netminder had fun, despite stopping just 35 of 45 shots, but found it strange wearing Flyers colors.
"I think that's why I got scored on 10 goals," he joked. "I'm just not used to that orange."
The fans loved the non-stop action and Rangers goalie Henrik Lundqvist playing great, but this wasn't NHL hockey. All penalties led to penalty shots and there was no checking at all, although former Flyers tough guys Daniel Carcillo and Arron Asham looked like they were about to drop their gloves while having words late in the second period. Both were given penalty shots, and both were denied.
Later, Carcillo called the incident staged entertainment.
"We're buddies," he said. "I hadn't seen (Asham) in awhile and we were just screwing around with each other. The fans like that kind of stuff and got a kick out of it."
Along the way, fans raised a lot of money for victims of Sandy.
"These guys could be somewhere else on a Saturday night, but they were here teaming up with Atlantic City trying to give back," Edward Dickson, director of homeland security for New Jersey, said before dropping the ceremonial first puck. "When you talk about heroes, this is who you're talking about."
Before the game, union executive director Donald Fehr met with about 25 players at Caesar's to fill them in on what's happening, which isn't much.
"There are no further (negotiation) meetings scheduled," Fehr said.
The union thought it took a big step toward a resolution when making a new proposal last Wednesday, one that spoke "the owners' language" and seemingly left the sides just $182 million over five seasons apart, but the offer immediately was rejected.
"It was off their proposal," Fehr said. "Everybody understands that negotiation is a process. So far, we seem to be doing all the negotiating."
Asked if he thinks the sides are closer to a deal than a week ago, Fehr said, "When we made our proposal on Wednesday, I thought the answer would be yes, but we didn't get a response that suggests that we are."
Later in the night, NHL players tried forgetting about being locked out for a few hours, but fans kept reminding them that this wasn't the real thing.
"We're in a lockout here right now and the fans are missing hockey," Simmonds said. "It was unbelievable to see. Everyone stayed and cheered the whole time."
Locked-out NHL players put on a show for fans, charity
When a horn signaled the end of 60 minutes of hockey Saturday night at Boardwalk Hall, almost everyone in a sellout crowd was still at their seats standing and cheering.
Moved, two teams of NHL players captained by Philadelphia Flyers All-Star left wing Scott Hartnell and New York Rangers center Brad Richards skated to center ice to toast everyone by raising their sticks again and again. Five minutes later, they were still out there.
"I had chills listening to the fans," Tampa Bay Lightning goal whiz Steven Stamkos said after suiting up for Team Hartnell, a roster filled with a bunch of Flyers who lost 10-6 to Team Richards, one with several Rangers.
In between a lot of entertaining back-and-forth hockey, locked-out NHL fans cheered their players, booed the rest and united to show frustration with NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman, who keeps shutting down his league.
"Fire Bettman … Fire Bettman ... Fire Bettman," a crowd of 10,792 chanted over and over during Operation Hat Trick, a charity hockey game that benefited families of New Jersey and New York victims of superstorm Sandy.
"You knew THAT was coming," Flyers tough guy Jody Shelley said. "Fire Bettman … We had 'Crosby Sucks … We Miss Hockey.' Our fans covered them all, didn't they?"
Sidney Crosby, the player Flyers fans love to hate, wasn't on hand, but his Pittsburgh Penguins teammate James Neal showed up and put on a show scoring four goals for Team Richards.
Hartnell was held scoreless, Stamkos was limited to one assist and Martin Brodeur allowed 10 goals, but no one seemed to care who won or lost. This was an opportunity for hockey fans to cheer on favorite players, support a cause … and loudly vent at Bettman, the ringleader to hockey's third lockout since 1994.
"They were chanting throughout the game, and that's what hockey is all about," Stamkos said. "The sad part is the fans are going through this right now. Obviously, we were here for a much greater cause and the turnout was amazing, but you could just feel the passion of hockey along the East Coast here. These are true passionate hockey fans, and they know what was going on."
Wearing Flyers orange, Stamkos received big cheers during pre-game introductions, but teammate-for-the-night Brodeur didn't get much love from Flyers fans. The legendary netminder had fun, despite stopping just 35 of 45 shots, but found it strange wearing Flyers colors.
"I think that's why I got scored on 10 goals," he joked. "I'm just not used to that orange."
The fans loved the non-stop action and Rangers goalie Henrik Lundqvist playing great, but this wasn't NHL hockey. All penalties led to penalty shots and there was no checking at all, although former Flyers tough guys Daniel Carcillo and Arron Asham looked like they were about to drop their gloves while having words late in the second period. Both were given penalty shots, and both were denied.
Later, Carcillo called the incident staged entertainment.
"We're buddies," he said. "I hadn't seen (Asham) in awhile and we were just screwing around with each other. The fans like that kind of stuff and got a kick out of it."
Along the way, fans raised a lot of money for victims of Sandy.
"These guys could be somewhere else on a Saturday night, but they were here teaming up with Atlantic City trying to give back," Edward Dickson, director of homeland security for New Jersey, said before dropping the ceremonial first puck. "When you talk about heroes, this is who you're talking about."
Before the game, union executive director Donald Fehr met with about 25 players at Caesar's to fill them in on what's happening, which isn't much.
"There are no further (negotiation) meetings scheduled," Fehr said.
The union thought it took a big step toward a resolution when making a new proposal last Wednesday, one that spoke "the owners' language" and seemingly left the sides just $182 million over five seasons apart, but the offer immediately was rejected.
"It was off their proposal," Fehr said. "Everybody understands that negotiation is a process. So far, we seem to be doing all the negotiating."
Asked if he thinks the sides are closer to a deal than a week ago, Fehr said, "When we made our proposal on Wednesday, I thought the answer would be yes, but we didn't get a response that suggests that we are."
Later in the night, NHL players tried forgetting about being locked out for a few hours, but fans kept reminding them that this wasn't the real thing.
"We're in a lockout here right now and the fans are missing hockey," Simmonds said. "It was unbelievable to see. Everyone stayed and cheered the whole time."
Locked-out NHL players put on a show for fans, charity
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Few can forecast where the NHL collective bargaining agreement talks will ultimately lead, but based on the paths of other professional sports that found themselves in stalled negotiations, many are aware of the next move.
And it belongs to the NHL Players’ Association.
Following the league’s rejection of the NHLPA’s proposal last week, the union could soon decide to decertify its status as the players’ bargaining representative, a strategy recently employed by both the NFL and NBA unions.
Decertification is a potential way of making the lockout illegal because, in the absence of a union, leagues are negotiating under antitrust law instead of common labor law. Players who are ready and willing to fulfill their contract obligations are then considered to be on their own and able to file individual lawsuits.
“There are two sets of laws which govern these situations,” NHLPA executive director Don Fehr told reporters over the weekend. “What happens is from time to time, unions and sports unions have essentially said that there are circumstances in which the members would be better off without a union and taking action under the antitrust laws. And that’s all I can say about it.”
When asked whether it was too soon to suggest that decertification was a strong possibility, Fehr replied: “I don’t want to tell you what’s too soon. You can look at what’s happened in the other sports and make your own judgment about that.”
In early 2011, the NFL and the NFL Players’ Association were engaged in a contract stalemate when the union vetoed the owners’ proposal and voted to decertify. On March 12, 2011, the lockout became official, leading players such as Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and Drew Brees to file antitrust lawsuits.
In April, a judge ruled in favor of the players, but in July, an appeals court overturned that decision, making the lockout legal. But talks picked up and the NFL reached a new deal with the union in late July.
In November 2011, negotiations between the NBA and the National Basketball Players’ Association also hit a wall, and the union continued the trend of decertification. After five months of talks, the disbanding of the union and ensuing lawsuits led to around-the-clock bargaining and an agreement that put the game back on the court on Christmas Day.
In a recent interview with the Toronto Globe and Mail, Buffalo goaltender Ryan Miller noted the similarities in the bargaining blueprints of the NBA and NHL and said that decertification may be the players’ best option.
“It seems like the players in any league are going to be subjected to the same scripted labor dispute developed by (NHL and NBA law firm) Proskauer Rose in all collective bargaining discussions now and in the future,” Miller told the Globe and Mail. “Decertification becomes part of the script because (NHL commissioner) Gary Bettman and the owners are trying to get a sense of how far they can push us, and at some point we have to say ‘enough.’
“They want to see if we will take a bad deal because we get desperate or if we have the strength to push back. Decertification is a push back and should show we want a negotiation and a fair deal on at least some of our terms.”
Last week, the NHLPA submitted a five-year proposal that moved toward the league’s plan but asked for $393 million – spread out over the length of the deal – that would “make whole” players’ current contracts. The league was offering $211 million, leading Fehr to point out that the lockout was being held up by a difference of $182 million.
But on the same day, the NHL rejected the offer and a couple of days later announced the cancellation of regular-season games through Dec. 14 and the All-Star game, scheduled for Jan. 26-27 in Columbus.
The league has since indicated that its make-whole offer, specifically the amount originally allocated, could be rescinded.
All of which leads back to the possibility of the NHLPA decertifying.
“It suffices to say all things are under consideration,” Steve Fehr, the union’s executive assistant and brother of Don Fehr, told a Toronto radio station last week.
The NHL is more than aware of the possibility and is probably preparing for it. But as Bill Daly, the league’s deputy commissioner, told the same radio station last week, “I wouldn’t view an antitrust lawsuit in this case to be anything other than an unfortunate development, because I think it’s a time-consuming process that would likely lead to the end of the season.”
NHL players may consider decertification : Stltoday
And it belongs to the NHL Players’ Association.
Following the league’s rejection of the NHLPA’s proposal last week, the union could soon decide to decertify its status as the players’ bargaining representative, a strategy recently employed by both the NFL and NBA unions.
Decertification is a potential way of making the lockout illegal because, in the absence of a union, leagues are negotiating under antitrust law instead of common labor law. Players who are ready and willing to fulfill their contract obligations are then considered to be on their own and able to file individual lawsuits.
“There are two sets of laws which govern these situations,” NHLPA executive director Don Fehr told reporters over the weekend. “What happens is from time to time, unions and sports unions have essentially said that there are circumstances in which the members would be better off without a union and taking action under the antitrust laws. And that’s all I can say about it.”
When asked whether it was too soon to suggest that decertification was a strong possibility, Fehr replied: “I don’t want to tell you what’s too soon. You can look at what’s happened in the other sports and make your own judgment about that.”
In early 2011, the NFL and the NFL Players’ Association were engaged in a contract stalemate when the union vetoed the owners’ proposal and voted to decertify. On March 12, 2011, the lockout became official, leading players such as Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and Drew Brees to file antitrust lawsuits.
In April, a judge ruled in favor of the players, but in July, an appeals court overturned that decision, making the lockout legal. But talks picked up and the NFL reached a new deal with the union in late July.
In November 2011, negotiations between the NBA and the National Basketball Players’ Association also hit a wall, and the union continued the trend of decertification. After five months of talks, the disbanding of the union and ensuing lawsuits led to around-the-clock bargaining and an agreement that put the game back on the court on Christmas Day.
In a recent interview with the Toronto Globe and Mail, Buffalo goaltender Ryan Miller noted the similarities in the bargaining blueprints of the NBA and NHL and said that decertification may be the players’ best option.
“It seems like the players in any league are going to be subjected to the same scripted labor dispute developed by (NHL and NBA law firm) Proskauer Rose in all collective bargaining discussions now and in the future,” Miller told the Globe and Mail. “Decertification becomes part of the script because (NHL commissioner) Gary Bettman and the owners are trying to get a sense of how far they can push us, and at some point we have to say ‘enough.’
“They want to see if we will take a bad deal because we get desperate or if we have the strength to push back. Decertification is a push back and should show we want a negotiation and a fair deal on at least some of our terms.”
Last week, the NHLPA submitted a five-year proposal that moved toward the league’s plan but asked for $393 million – spread out over the length of the deal – that would “make whole” players’ current contracts. The league was offering $211 million, leading Fehr to point out that the lockout was being held up by a difference of $182 million.
But on the same day, the NHL rejected the offer and a couple of days later announced the cancellation of regular-season games through Dec. 14 and the All-Star game, scheduled for Jan. 26-27 in Columbus.
The league has since indicated that its make-whole offer, specifically the amount originally allocated, could be rescinded.
All of which leads back to the possibility of the NHLPA decertifying.
“It suffices to say all things are under consideration,” Steve Fehr, the union’s executive assistant and brother of Don Fehr, told a Toronto radio station last week.
The NHL is more than aware of the possibility and is probably preparing for it. But as Bill Daly, the league’s deputy commissioner, told the same radio station last week, “I wouldn’t view an antitrust lawsuit in this case to be anything other than an unfortunate development, because I think it’s a time-consuming process that would likely lead to the end of the season.”
NHL players may consider decertification : Stltoday
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2006/12/07
Messages:
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Located on Granville St. near Smythe in downtown Vancouver, it normally sells a lot of Vancouver Canuck merchandise. There are Canuck jerseys still displayed everywhere in the store, racks upon racks of them, but many are collecting dust.
The Sports Corner is another example of collateral damage in the National Hockey League lockout that is grinding through its eighth week.
“It's had a huge impact on our business,” store manager Mike Jackson said Tuesday. “We are way down. We are praying they get back to work and we can start selling stuff again. Right now, it is very grim.”
There are two other Sports Corners in the Lower Mainland, one on Robson and another in Abbotsford. Jackson fears the Robson outlet might be forced to close its doors if the NHL winds up cancelling the entire season. Full bargaining resumed Tuesday in New York City after nearly three weeks away from the table. Games have already been scrubbed through the end of November.
“We really need a season,” Jackson emphasized. “We'll survive a shortened season but I think we'll probably have to close the Robson store if there is no season at all. Compared to a normal season when the NHL is going, we're probably down a good 40 per cent.
“We carry the whole NHL but the Canucks are our driving force. Right now, we've had to discount our Canuck jerseys because we have bills to pay. So the effect on us is huge. I say a little prayer every night that they'll reach an agreement.”
The Sports Corner is predominately a jersey, t-shirt and hat store. In the absence of an NHL market, it is trying to survive on its football sales. One window display is devoted mostly to the B.C. Lions with Travis Lulay, Geroy Simon, Adam Bighill and Andrew Harris jerseys front and centre. The Whitecaps also have some window presence along with the NFL, the Vancouver Giants and a bit of Canucks. (Henrik Sedin, Trevor Linden and Pavel Bure jerseys.)
“The NFL is moving well and the Whitecaps were good but their season is done.,” Jackson said. “The B.C. Lions are strong but they only have one or two more games left so we rely big-time on the NHL. If the Canucks had a home game tonight, we'd be really busy, especially from five o'clock on. For Saturday-Sunday games, we're usually busy all day.”
Meanwhile, the Jersey City outlet in Richmond Centre has moved its Canuck display towards the rear of the store and, according to manager Letitia Madden, is receiving a lot of grief from frustrated hockey fans.
“We have a buy-one, get-one-half-price deal going on to move stuff during the lockout and a lot of customers will look at us and laugh and say: 'Like, what's hockey? What's the NHL?' We're getting a lot of that right now,” Madden said. “The lockout has definitely had an impact. I couldn't give you a solid percentage but it's definitely down and down a lot, for sure.
“The B.C. Lions and NFL are our top sellers right now. We've got a much smaller section of Canuck jerseys than normal and I actually made it smaller yesterday. Normally, the Canucks and the NHL would take up the whole front of our store. Now we're making use of other sports teams.”
Cyclone Taylor on Oak Street is doing fine without the NHL. Its core business is hockey equipment so it doesn't rely on jersey sales to survive. Nevertheless, store manager Brent Wynn still has plenty of Canuck jerseys on display, nine racks of them Tuesday, and has no plans to remove them.
“We are selling some jerseys but nowhere nearly what we would be if the Canucks and the NHL were playing,” he said. “With most people, there is apathy at this point in time. They want the NHL back but they're not prepared to buy that jersey and get it 'named-up' until they come back. Once that happens, I'm sure the floodgates will open, at least hopefully.”
Like Cyclone's, the Sports Exchange on Burrard deals mostly in equipment, specializing in hockey and baseball. But the store still has a major display of Canuck jerseys up front and virtually none are sellling. Salesman Mike Vertlieb even looked it up.
“Since the lockout started, we have sold one adult men's jersey in the current style,” he reported, while also noting that Christmas and playoffs are the major selling periods, not November. “People aren't willing to buy any Canuck stuff right now. That's what I've noticed.”
Read more: NHL losing its shirts during lockout